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[Music]

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these days so many podcast hosts just

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highersidechats.com

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enjoy

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in the 1930s president franklin delano

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roosevelt addressed the nation through a

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series of radio broadcasts known as the

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fireside chats his aim was to reassure

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the common man that our society would

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recover from its troubled times well

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we're far from 1930 and i deal with a

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different kind of fire for a new era of

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worldly frustration we offer a fresh

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conversation i'm greg carlwood and these

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are the higher side chats

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let them eat cake people how we doing

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out there from sunny san diego i'm greg

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carlwood and it's easy to take for

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granted but there are few topics more

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important or more multi-dimensional than

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what we eat

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in much simpler times when we lived off

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the land the answer was pretty simple we

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eat what we can and what's around but

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industrialization complicated the

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question of what even qualifies as food

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and high society has held our diet up to

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examine it through spiritual moral and

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philosophical lenses whether you like

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their conclusions or not

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we know food control and food quality

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have always been factors in

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conversations of class and power as well

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as major elements in wartime strategy

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and colonization

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and these are the things we must

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consider when food factories are

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catching fire or exploding at a

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suspiciously high rate livestock is

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being killed in mass over one pcr test

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for pig disease or bird flu

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cows are being scapegoated for rampant

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corporate pollution and multinational

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billionaire think tanks and interlocking

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organizations are making it very clear

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that their plan to create a more

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sustainable and of course more

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profitable world is to completely

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eradicate traditional food sources and

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make sure everyone globally is eating

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factory made frankenmeat and subpar

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products produced by their corporate lab

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food friends

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call it an attack a hostile takeover or

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just crony capitalism at work but there

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is a good argument to be made that this

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very well might be the most important

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struggle of our lifetimes

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because the consequences of these food

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policy police being successful are quite

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scary and yet so many people are

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blissfully unaware

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well here to break it all down is dr

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frederick lara one of the most

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knowledgeable and highly qualified

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experts in the food field that i could

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find he's a food scientist technologist

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and professor at the university of

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brussels specializing in the science and

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application of animal foods in society

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and nutrition with a research background

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in bacterial communities and fermented

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foods human and animal health food

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studies and food traditions

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he is the president of the belgian

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association of meat science and

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technology and belgian society for food

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microbiology

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and he also serves on the scientific

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board of the world farmers organization

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among other non-profits and academic

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boards his accomplishments no no bounds

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the food science educator anti-meat

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agenda exposer and corporate food tech

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truth teller dr frederic lara thank you

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so much for being here

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most welcome that was quite the

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introduction thank you

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well this is a real honor i do feel like

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a bit of a phony doing the accent but

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you know i gotta take a stab at it and

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you know really the food issues of our

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day are some of the most important to me

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so to have you here is a real treat i

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tried to do your bio justice but your

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accolades and accomplishments are pretty

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vast to kick this off talk to us a bit

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more about your background and resume as

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well as where you started to notice

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there was a problem or dare i say

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campaign against meat from the top down

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right well it goes back to

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my interest in food that started to be

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triggered while i was studying

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bioengineering sciences now by

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bioengineering sciences is a quite

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unique study in belgium

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combining all sorts of different

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approaches to science as long as they

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involve biology and combine biology so

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living matter living organisms with

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technology so that could be

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environmental technology through you

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know

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wastewater treatments or agricultural

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sciences or cellular approaches and

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immunology you name it all sorts of

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different things but also

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food science and technology and

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within the direction that i picked which

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was the chemistry part so within

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chemistry i became interested in so in

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food technology and also in nutrition

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i did a master thesis on food and

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nutrient security

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in africa and

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after that i did a phd

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in a rather different field which was

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hardcore engineering

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of food processors and

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applying mathematical modeling to

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simulate what is going on with respect

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to food safety and food quality

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in

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fermented animals or foods particularly

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meat

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so that that was just a case study right

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it was just my case study

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and at the time of my phd which was in

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the

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i

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that

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spectacularly controversial

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at least not as it became afterwards so

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because of my interest in animal source

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foods which only grew and i also became

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a generalist in the field of animal

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production

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i was confronted more and more with

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journalists and with media discourse and

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with all sorts of things being claimed

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about

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my topic of expertise animal social

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foods that just didn't make sense

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i know how animal source foods are

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produced i know how they're transformed

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and what they mean biochemically

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speaking what they mean for health

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what the different

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potential harms are that can be caused

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but also the benefits

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and

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i was only hearing very hyperbolic

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exaggerated claims about how meat is

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destroying the planet and our health and

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how it's

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incredibly bad for the animals and it

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makes biodiversity collapse

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and

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all different kinds of

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apocalyptic stories that basically we

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should end

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livestock agriculture to save the planet

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and everybody on it

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and that was so fascinating that the

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foods that i was studying and also the

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foods that have always been valued very

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much by our ancestors for many reasons

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those foods certainly

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were

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transformed from being very benign and

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very valued very cherished foods to

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foods that were vilified and

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presented as extremely harmful

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now there must be a reason for that and

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it just

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doesn't happen like this out of the blue

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especially also because

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in the past every

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type of vegan or vegetarian discourse

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was

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taken serious

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and why would it because who would

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support that

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and now it's all over the place yeah so

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it's clearly being pushed

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and i wanted to find out why that is the

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case so

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to do so what i did is i collaborate or

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started collaborations with

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specialists in the field of

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history and psychology and consumer

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sciences and anthropology

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trying to figure out what was going on

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with the societal change with respect to

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meat and at the end meat is just one of

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the i focus a lot on meat because it's

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the most probably the most controversial

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the most symbolic of all the foods but

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it's a larger problem it has to do with

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the new ways that people look at food

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and how certain

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circles want to transform the food

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system in radical ways

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and use all sorts of different means and

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strategies to get there

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well that is a great introductory

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summary

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and to talk a bit about the history of

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the billionaire class trying to control

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the diets of people and demonizing meat

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i've heard you take this campaign back

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to the club of rome in 1968 where david

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rockefeller was one of the three

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founders we have the rockefeller

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commission report in 1969 meant to look

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ahead to the year 2000 that talked about

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these same food goals we hear about from

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the world economic forum talk to us

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about some of

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this history that kind of got us to this

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place where we are now because they've

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been talking about this for a long time

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it just seems like lately it's really

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been ramped up

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yes yeah that's absolutely true

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despite the fact that i was mentioning

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that it's a very recent phenomenon that

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we really confronted with this

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only over the last

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let's say seven eight years to the

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extent that we're facing it now but it's

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true that it goes back much further in

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time

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it was more under the surface but the

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general layout was already in place

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actually it goes back even further than

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the late 1960s

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you could say that it goes back

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to the

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19th century especially the second part

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of the 19th century where you had the

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first ideas about how what well

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to be fair there's a historical track

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record that even goes beyond that

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and it's important to see the whole

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picture here

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because otherwise people focus too much

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on certain interests and players and

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it's a very broad

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dynamic that is really

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in the societal issue

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in many it's a complicated pattern so

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let me try to clarify that as simply as

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00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:31,760
i can do that

288
00:10:35,110 --> 00:10:32,959
if you look at

289
00:10:36,150 --> 00:10:35,120
animal source foods and red meat in

290
00:10:38,790 --> 00:10:36,160
particular

291
00:10:41,590 --> 00:10:38,800
throughout history there are anecdotal

292
00:10:42,870 --> 00:10:41,600
historical anecdotes that say that some

293
00:10:45,030 --> 00:10:42,880
people have

294
00:10:47,509 --> 00:10:45,040
were not willing to eat those foods and

295
00:10:49,990 --> 00:10:47,519
it was usually in a context of

296
00:10:51,910 --> 00:10:50,000
purity and religion and

297
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:51,920
trying to

298
00:10:56,310 --> 00:10:55,040
get to those self-cleaning

299
00:10:59,030 --> 00:10:56,320
ways of

300
00:11:00,870 --> 00:10:59,040
even self-denial so acidism in in

301
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:00,880
general so it was always

302
00:11:05,750 --> 00:11:03,440
those religious fractions that were very

303
00:11:09,110 --> 00:11:05,760
much puritan and

304
00:11:10,790 --> 00:11:09,120
trying to get away from the earthly

305
00:11:12,150 --> 00:11:10,800
dirtiness and filth

306
00:11:14,750 --> 00:11:12,160
that has been the essence and you can

307
00:11:17,190 --> 00:11:14,760
find examples in in ancient greece

308
00:11:18,550 --> 00:11:17,200
pythagoras was vegetarian didn't eat

309
00:11:20,069 --> 00:11:18,560
meat and he connected that to

310
00:11:22,630 --> 00:11:20,079
reincarnation for instance it was about

311
00:11:24,389 --> 00:11:22,640
purity and religion but that was very

312
00:11:26,310 --> 00:11:24,399
you know much in the margin and then in

313
00:11:29,350 --> 00:11:26,320
the 19th century

314
00:11:30,870 --> 00:11:29,360
those religious ideas materialized in

315
00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:30,880
the so-called

316
00:11:34,310 --> 00:11:32,720
bible christians and they come from the

317
00:11:35,829 --> 00:11:34,320
swedenborgian church which is again a

318
00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:35,839
very mystical

319
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:37,360
mystic kind of

320
00:11:40,710 --> 00:11:38,480
religion

321
00:11:42,470 --> 00:11:40,720
with all sorts of bizarre theories and

322
00:11:45,190 --> 00:11:42,480
the bible christians

323
00:11:46,389 --> 00:11:45,200
were vegetarians and they

324
00:11:48,150 --> 00:11:46,399
developed

325
00:11:49,670 --> 00:11:48,160
a new form of

326
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:49,680
community of religious community and

327
00:11:52,870 --> 00:11:51,519
they exported that to the united states

328
00:11:55,350 --> 00:11:52,880
and they also brought that to other

329
00:11:58,470 --> 00:11:55,360
places but they started in england and

330
00:12:00,470 --> 00:11:58,480
then in new england mainly in the us

331
00:12:01,910 --> 00:12:00,480
this gave birth to the first vegetarian

332
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:01,920
societies

333
00:12:05,910 --> 00:12:03,040
and

334
00:12:08,629 --> 00:12:05,920
they were originally very much

335
00:12:10,230 --> 00:12:08,639
using religious arguments of purity the

336
00:12:12,310 --> 00:12:10,240
seven day adventists were brought into

337
00:12:13,430 --> 00:12:12,320
that movement as well and ellen white

338
00:12:15,829 --> 00:12:13,440
the prophetess of the seventh-day

339
00:12:17,750 --> 00:12:15,839
adventists she was saying that red meat

340
00:12:20,230 --> 00:12:17,760
is sinful you shouldn't eat it because

341
00:12:21,990 --> 00:12:20,240
it creates sexual lusts and then you

342
00:12:22,949 --> 00:12:22,000
should avoid it by all means especially

343
00:12:25,750 --> 00:12:22,959
children

344
00:12:28,710 --> 00:12:25,760
and from all those religious ideas

345
00:12:31,190 --> 00:12:28,720
at some point they connected this to

346
00:12:33,190 --> 00:12:31,200
medical discourse and that happened

347
00:12:35,670 --> 00:12:33,200
because of people like sylvester graham

348
00:12:37,030 --> 00:12:35,680
but also kellogg

349
00:12:38,550 --> 00:12:37,040
john harvey kellogg's a seventh-day

350
00:12:40,790 --> 00:12:38,560
adventist

351
00:12:43,030 --> 00:12:40,800
and he came from that school

352
00:12:45,269 --> 00:12:43,040
but he was also a

353
00:12:47,590 --> 00:12:45,279
a progressive scientist in a way he was

354
00:12:49,430 --> 00:12:47,600
very connected to all sorts of therapies

355
00:12:51,990 --> 00:12:49,440
water therapies and

356
00:12:54,470 --> 00:12:52,000
but he carried those seven-day adventist

357
00:12:56,870 --> 00:12:54,480
beliefs with him so even if he developed

358
00:12:58,870 --> 00:12:56,880
corn flakes that was because cornflakes

359
00:13:01,350 --> 00:12:58,880
originally was a very bland food that

360
00:13:04,069 --> 00:13:01,360
would cool the body so that people

361
00:13:05,670 --> 00:13:04,079
don't become agitated and they wouldn't

362
00:13:07,509 --> 00:13:05,680
be attracted to

363
00:13:08,550 --> 00:13:07,519
or they wouldn't fall for less than

364
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:08,560
those

365
00:13:11,829 --> 00:13:10,480
sinful behaviors

366
00:13:13,269 --> 00:13:11,839
but then his brother added sugar and the

367
00:13:15,829 --> 00:13:13,279
whole thing went in different directions

368
00:13:17,750 --> 00:13:15,839
but originally his ideas came from seven

369
00:13:18,629 --> 00:13:17,760
day adventists but he also connected

370
00:13:20,470 --> 00:13:18,639
those

371
00:13:22,470 --> 00:13:20,480
to medical discourse

372
00:13:24,629 --> 00:13:22,480
one of his prodigies was one of the main

373
00:13:26,310 --> 00:13:24,639
founders of the american dietetic

374
00:13:28,230 --> 00:13:26,320
association and from there on the seven

375
00:13:30,629 --> 00:13:28,240
day adventist influenced

376
00:13:33,590 --> 00:13:30,639
dietary discourse since the early days

377
00:13:35,829 --> 00:13:33,600
of the dietary movement

378
00:13:37,750 --> 00:13:35,839
it was then connected to progressive

379
00:13:39,509 --> 00:13:37,760
agendas in general

380
00:13:41,110 --> 00:13:39,519
socialism was developing and socialists

381
00:13:42,550 --> 00:13:41,120
were very often also vegetarians they

382
00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:42,560
were using vegetarianism as an

383
00:13:46,550 --> 00:13:43,920
expression of

384
00:13:49,910 --> 00:13:46,560
being progressive and being a good

385
00:13:53,509 --> 00:13:49,920
citizen and being a rightful citizen

386
00:13:55,269 --> 00:13:53,519
and not eating red meat became

387
00:13:57,110 --> 00:13:55,279
how could you say that it became moral

388
00:13:58,870 --> 00:13:57,120
behavior it's an expression of moral

389
00:14:01,269 --> 00:13:58,880
behavior so it has this connotation of

390
00:14:02,470 --> 00:14:01,279
being a moral thing to do since the

391
00:14:05,110 --> 00:14:02,480
early days

392
00:14:06,870 --> 00:14:05,120
and then it infiltrated

393
00:14:08,710 --> 00:14:06,880
health discourse and nutrition nutrition

394
00:14:11,509 --> 00:14:08,720
sciences and it was presented as the

395
00:14:14,470 --> 00:14:11,519
healthy model very very early on and it

396
00:14:16,389 --> 00:14:14,480
hasn't really changed much

397
00:14:18,470 --> 00:14:16,399
newer nutrition sciences build on that

398
00:14:20,150 --> 00:14:18,480
ancient idea that or more

399
00:14:21,990 --> 00:14:20,160
older idea that

400
00:14:24,069 --> 00:14:22,000
meat is part of unhealthy diets and

401
00:14:26,310 --> 00:14:24,079
people should mainly eat whole grains

402
00:14:28,069 --> 00:14:26,320
and nuts and

403
00:14:29,990 --> 00:14:28,079
essentially that traces back to those

404
00:14:32,230 --> 00:14:30,000
early notions of the garden of eden diet

405
00:14:33,750 --> 00:14:32,240
at the seventh-day adventist

406
00:14:35,910 --> 00:14:33,760
so that's so then you have to make a

407
00:14:37,670 --> 00:14:35,920
little jump in time because that dynamic

408
00:14:39,829 --> 00:14:37,680
was somehow interrupted by the world

409
00:14:42,470 --> 00:14:39,839
wars and then people were concerned

410
00:14:44,629 --> 00:14:42,480
about more urgent pressing things and

411
00:14:46,870 --> 00:14:44,639
the only thing that still happened there

412
00:14:47,910 --> 00:14:46,880
was in 1917 at the end of the first

413
00:14:49,509 --> 00:14:47,920
world war

414
00:14:51,189 --> 00:14:49,519
there was a big campaign from the

415
00:14:53,189 --> 00:14:51,199
government

416
00:14:56,550 --> 00:14:53,199
from the food administration

417
00:14:58,150 --> 00:14:56,560
to reduce the eating of red meat in the

418
00:14:59,910 --> 00:14:58,160
united states because the red meat had

419
00:15:01,750 --> 00:14:59,920
to be shipped to europe

420
00:15:03,990 --> 00:15:01,760
to support the troops and support the

421
00:15:05,910 --> 00:15:04,000
european populations that were hungry

422
00:15:07,269 --> 00:15:05,920
and it just happened to be that red meat

423
00:15:08,069 --> 00:15:07,279
was one of those foods that you could

424
00:15:10,710 --> 00:15:08,079
ship

425
00:15:12,069 --> 00:15:10,720
easily as conservatives and us

426
00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:12,079
in different manners but it was one of

427
00:15:16,069 --> 00:15:14,560
the pragmatic things to do so americans

428
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:16,079
had to eat less so that the others could

429
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:17,440
eat more

430
00:15:22,069 --> 00:15:20,639
that was purely economical logistic

431
00:15:24,550 --> 00:15:22,079
but it was still connected to those

432
00:15:25,590 --> 00:15:24,560
ideas of being a moral food right but

433
00:15:27,110 --> 00:15:25,600
now it was also coming from the

434
00:15:28,870 --> 00:15:27,120
government

435
00:15:31,269 --> 00:15:28,880
and that's the first layer you know

436
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:31,279
that's the first layer within society

437
00:15:35,670 --> 00:15:33,279
it's good not to eat red meat

438
00:15:38,310 --> 00:15:35,680
and government tells you to do so and

439
00:15:40,230 --> 00:15:38,320
you'll be a good citizen if you do that

440
00:15:42,389 --> 00:15:40,240
so there's an ideological religious

441
00:15:45,430 --> 00:15:42,399
basis there there is a pragmatic

442
00:15:48,310 --> 00:15:45,440
logistic element and then you get to

443
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:48,320
what you mentioned before the late 1960s

444
00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:50,240
and that's when the technocratic

445
00:15:54,550 --> 00:15:52,240
movements came forward and that's

446
00:15:56,870 --> 00:15:54,560
especially in the slipstream of the club

447
00:15:59,590 --> 00:15:56,880
of rome and the rockefeller clan

448
00:16:01,430 --> 00:15:59,600
you mentioned the report of the american

449
00:16:03,829 --> 00:16:01,440
population and growth of the american

450
00:16:05,590 --> 00:16:03,839
population and the malthusian panic

451
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:05,600
about you know increasing populations

452
00:16:10,310 --> 00:16:07,360
decreasing resources

453
00:16:12,470 --> 00:16:10,320
and stepping in and trying to fix that

454
00:16:14,629 --> 00:16:12,480
so experts had to design the most

455
00:16:16,710 --> 00:16:14,639
optimal way for the planet to behave so

456
00:16:18,069 --> 00:16:16,720
that we would avoid catastrophe that's

457
00:16:20,150 --> 00:16:18,079
what the club of rome did with its

458
00:16:22,949 --> 00:16:20,160
limits to growth report

459
00:16:25,350 --> 00:16:22,959
and within those first reports coming

460
00:16:27,990 --> 00:16:25,360
from those people

461
00:16:31,509 --> 00:16:28,000
they mentioned already synthetic meats

462
00:16:32,790 --> 00:16:31,519
we're talking about the late 1960s 69 in

463
00:16:35,030 --> 00:16:32,800
one of the reports you'll find the

464
00:16:36,629 --> 00:16:35,040
terminology of synthetic meats already

465
00:16:39,350 --> 00:16:36,639
back then and they were talking about

466
00:16:41,910 --> 00:16:39,360
closed systems of agriculture food from

467
00:16:43,910 --> 00:16:41,920
factories so it essentially means that

468
00:16:45,509 --> 00:16:43,920
we should step away from

469
00:16:48,389 --> 00:16:45,519
traditional conventional agriculture as

470
00:16:49,990 --> 00:16:48,399
we know it and make lab foods

471
00:16:51,990 --> 00:16:50,000
and that at the time must have sounded

472
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:52,000
like science fiction and probably nobody

473
00:16:56,470 --> 00:16:53,600
took that very seriously

474
00:16:58,629 --> 00:16:56,480
but today you find the same arguments

475
00:17:01,030 --> 00:16:58,639
and way of thinking and same logic you

476
00:17:02,550 --> 00:17:01,040
find it as mainstream

477
00:17:04,549 --> 00:17:02,560
and not only that

478
00:17:05,510 --> 00:17:04,559
the ones that are propagating them the

479
00:17:08,390 --> 00:17:05,520
message

480
00:17:11,590 --> 00:17:08,400
are organizations that are all

481
00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:11,600
historically coming from

482
00:17:15,829 --> 00:17:13,839
the same network club of rome

483
00:17:17,429 --> 00:17:15,839
rockefeller foundation

484
00:17:18,789 --> 00:17:17,439
the world economic forum the world

485
00:17:21,029 --> 00:17:18,799
business council for sustainable

486
00:17:24,069 --> 00:17:21,039
development that are connected to

487
00:17:26,230 --> 00:17:24,079
the united nations environment programs

488
00:17:27,829 --> 00:17:26,240
in in the early days coming from maurice

489
00:17:30,230 --> 00:17:27,839
strong and all those people

490
00:17:32,150 --> 00:17:30,240
those were technocratic agendas so there

491
00:17:34,710 --> 00:17:32,160
are different forces and they're not

492
00:17:35,750 --> 00:17:34,720
it's not a linear system here it's not

493
00:17:39,430 --> 00:17:35,760
one

494
00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:39,440
something on all the other people it's a

495
00:17:42,630 --> 00:17:41,280
complicated network complicated

496
00:17:44,549 --> 00:17:42,640
historical

497
00:17:46,390 --> 00:17:44,559
patchwork of all kind of different

498
00:17:49,029 --> 00:17:46,400
belief systems and

499
00:17:50,950 --> 00:17:49,039
and motives and agendas that are now

500
00:17:53,190 --> 00:17:50,960
converging and

501
00:17:55,430 --> 00:17:53,200
finding a common interest in a

502
00:17:57,190 --> 00:17:55,440
simplified message that eating meat is

503
00:17:59,990 --> 00:17:57,200
bad and eating

504
00:18:01,909 --> 00:18:00,000
vegan foods is a good thing

505
00:18:03,909 --> 00:18:01,919
well that's a great summary of a complex

506
00:18:06,150 --> 00:18:03,919
history you mentioned morris strong in

507
00:18:09,270 --> 00:18:06,160
the 1970s you know he was an oil guy who

508
00:18:11,750 --> 00:18:09,280
set up the public private partnerships

509
00:18:13,669 --> 00:18:11,760
which is also a big part of how we got

510
00:18:14,710 --> 00:18:13,679
to today with this revolving door

511
00:18:18,390 --> 00:18:14,720
between

512
00:18:19,830 --> 00:18:18,400
food tech industry and policy makers and

513
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:19,840
obviously we can get into some of those

514
00:18:22,950 --> 00:18:22,080
organizations but that self-sacrifice

515
00:18:25,110 --> 00:18:22,960
theme

516
00:18:26,630 --> 00:18:25,120
obviously that's still the justification

517
00:18:29,430 --> 00:18:26,640
like if someone wants to do that for

518
00:18:31,110 --> 00:18:29,440
themselves for religious reasons by all

519
00:18:33,669 --> 00:18:31,120
means go for it be spiritually

520
00:18:36,630 --> 00:18:33,679
enlightened and be a vegan but to impose

521
00:18:39,190 --> 00:18:36,640
that on everyone else is is not right

522
00:18:41,029 --> 00:18:39,200
and today that justification is climate

523
00:18:43,190 --> 00:18:41,039
change and when you get into the

524
00:18:45,029 --> 00:18:43,200
rockefellers and this billionaire class

525
00:18:46,950 --> 00:18:45,039
i've never seen them

526
00:18:50,310 --> 00:18:46,960
do anything out of the goodness of their

527
00:18:53,669 --> 00:18:50,320
heart for the benefit of the masses it's

528
00:18:56,470 --> 00:18:53,679
usually about really cold controlled

529
00:18:59,029 --> 00:18:56,480
capitalism especially these oil guys

530
00:19:01,110 --> 00:18:59,039
because they're stories where cars used

531
00:19:02,710 --> 00:19:01,120
to be able to run on alcohol and they

532
00:19:05,190 --> 00:19:02,720
shut that down they used to be able to

533
00:19:07,190 --> 00:19:05,200
run on hemp shut that down because oil

534
00:19:10,870 --> 00:19:07,200
is what they controlled so it becomes

535
00:19:13,350 --> 00:19:10,880
oil only get rid of the network of

536
00:19:14,950 --> 00:19:13,360
trains you know control transportation

537
00:19:17,830 --> 00:19:14,960
as much as you can this is kind of their

538
00:19:20,710 --> 00:19:17,840
mindset so when i think about this and

539
00:19:23,270 --> 00:19:20,720
the next chapter maybe we had a chapter

540
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:23,280
where medicine was there i mean most

541
00:19:27,830 --> 00:19:26,000
pills are based on oil so then we can

542
00:19:30,310 --> 00:19:27,840
say that was a chapter now food is the

543
00:19:32,470 --> 00:19:30,320
next big focus of theirs and something

544
00:19:35,110 --> 00:19:32,480
that was just really eye-opening that

545
00:19:38,789 --> 00:19:35,120
you said in a previous interview

546
00:19:41,909 --> 00:19:38,799
was that you know anyone can farm and

547
00:19:45,590 --> 00:19:41,919
raise and slaughter animals but only

548
00:19:48,310 --> 00:19:45,600
highly advanced food labs can make these

549
00:19:50,630 --> 00:19:48,320
impossible burgers these beyond burgers

550
00:19:52,630 --> 00:19:50,640
these patented food products that

551
00:19:54,950 --> 00:19:52,640
they're trying to push us towards they

552
00:19:57,190 --> 00:19:54,960
can justify it as saying oh well it's

553
00:19:59,270 --> 00:19:57,200
for the good of the people and the good

554
00:20:01,750 --> 00:19:59,280
of the planet but it's also the for the

555
00:20:04,549 --> 00:20:01,760
good of your pocketbook because regular

556
00:20:06,630 --> 00:20:04,559
people can't make an impossible burger

557
00:20:07,669 --> 00:20:06,640
so if you get rid of cows and pigs and

558
00:20:09,270 --> 00:20:07,679
chickens

559
00:20:11,590 --> 00:20:09,280
where we do have some control and

560
00:20:13,510 --> 00:20:11,600
autonomy over our own diets and you give

561
00:20:14,470 --> 00:20:13,520
us only this other stuff

562
00:20:17,830 --> 00:20:14,480
well

563
00:20:20,310 --> 00:20:17,840
i mean that's a scary place to be

564
00:20:21,590 --> 00:20:20,320
yes it's clearly about control that's

565
00:20:24,310 --> 00:20:21,600
it's obvious

566
00:20:26,149 --> 00:20:24,320
technocracy has to be understood as

567
00:20:27,909 --> 00:20:26,159
an attempt of

568
00:20:30,390 --> 00:20:27,919
experts to

569
00:20:32,950 --> 00:20:30,400
impose their vision on things

570
00:20:35,190 --> 00:20:32,960
which may be driven partially by profit

571
00:20:36,789 --> 00:20:35,200
but not only don't underestimate the

572
00:20:38,950 --> 00:20:36,799
cultish side of all this there's an

573
00:20:41,510 --> 00:20:38,960
ideological part as well playing even in

574
00:20:43,430 --> 00:20:41,520
those rockefeller foundations and so on

575
00:20:46,310 --> 00:20:43,440
there's a cultish almost

576
00:20:47,830 --> 00:20:46,320
idea and those people see themselves as

577
00:20:49,669 --> 00:20:47,840
they truly see themselves sometimes as

578
00:20:51,909 --> 00:20:49,679
saviors of the planet

579
00:20:53,990 --> 00:20:51,919
and also of course if you can make good

580
00:20:55,110 --> 00:20:54,000
money with it even better so it's a

581
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:55,120
combination of both we shouldn't

582
00:20:59,350 --> 00:20:56,720
underestimate the ideological part of

583
00:21:01,029 --> 00:20:59,360
this but it's clearly always from both

584
00:21:03,990 --> 00:21:01,039
perspectives it's about control it's

585
00:21:06,310 --> 00:21:04,000
about trying to do what you want and

586
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,320
taking away the resistance

587
00:21:10,149 --> 00:21:08,880
if they control food you control it all

588
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:10,159
i mean if you control the food system

589
00:21:14,070 --> 00:21:12,240
it's our basic need it's what everybody

590
00:21:16,549 --> 00:21:14,080
needs it's what everybody needs daily if

591
00:21:18,470 --> 00:21:16,559
you don't have it there's a huge problem

592
00:21:20,789 --> 00:21:18,480
and if you cannot access it anymore

593
00:21:24,549 --> 00:21:20,799
yourself through your own

594
00:21:27,430 --> 00:21:24,559
network your own community network

595
00:21:29,110 --> 00:21:27,440
and your own retail and

596
00:21:31,430 --> 00:21:29,120
your supply chains

597
00:21:33,990 --> 00:21:31,440
locally but you depend on those

598
00:21:36,789 --> 00:21:34,000
specialized foods that come from

599
00:21:38,390 --> 00:21:36,799
very complicated high-tech approaches to

600
00:21:40,789 --> 00:21:38,400
food well then there's a huge amount of

601
00:21:43,510 --> 00:21:40,799
control involved

602
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:43,520
another resource here is land of course

603
00:21:48,070 --> 00:21:45,120
the thing with animal agriculture and

604
00:21:48,950 --> 00:21:48,080
especially with red meat and to focus on

605
00:21:54,390 --> 00:21:48,960
cattle

606
00:21:56,630 --> 00:21:54,400
land to have cows there's a lot of land

607
00:22:01,350 --> 00:21:56,640
and

608
00:22:04,230 --> 00:22:01,360
strategic value

609
00:22:06,630 --> 00:22:04,240
controlling food and controlling land

610
00:22:08,470 --> 00:22:06,640
by removing the cows from the land and

611
00:22:10,549 --> 00:22:08,480
and using it for all the other sorts of

612
00:22:12,789 --> 00:22:10,559
things think about carbon credit systems

613
00:22:14,230 --> 00:22:12,799
or and so on controlling food and

614
00:22:15,029 --> 00:22:14,240
controlling land

615
00:22:17,590 --> 00:22:15,039
are

616
00:22:20,549 --> 00:22:17,600
prime targets if you want to get control

617
00:22:22,630 --> 00:22:20,559
over the way things work

618
00:22:25,270 --> 00:22:22,640
absolutely great points

619
00:22:27,830 --> 00:22:25,280
and i also heard you make the case that

620
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:27,840
we could look at margarine as an early

621
00:22:32,390 --> 00:22:30,720
example of a corporate creation that no

622
00:22:34,710 --> 00:22:32,400
one really liked but then the marketing

623
00:22:37,270 --> 00:22:34,720
was so aggressive that many people were

624
00:22:40,230 --> 00:22:37,280
convinced it was better than what was

625
00:22:42,950 --> 00:22:40,240
natural which was butter or ghee or you

626
00:22:44,950 --> 00:22:42,960
know using animal fats for cooking

627
00:22:46,230 --> 00:22:44,960
and eventually we realized it was bad

628
00:22:48,710 --> 00:22:46,240
for us and

629
00:22:51,909 --> 00:22:48,720
now they're kind of using that template

630
00:22:55,110 --> 00:22:51,919
that same aggressive marketing on dozens

631
00:22:55,909 --> 00:22:55,120
of traditional food replacements right

632
00:22:57,669 --> 00:22:55,919
yeah

633
00:22:58,870 --> 00:22:57,679
and it's always a good lesson

634
00:23:01,430 --> 00:22:58,880
if you

635
00:23:03,270 --> 00:23:01,440
consult some history books because

636
00:23:05,350 --> 00:23:03,280
usually mechanisms stay more or less the

637
00:23:06,950 --> 00:23:05,360
same it's just that they vary a bit

638
00:23:09,190 --> 00:23:06,960
according to the circumstances but the

639
00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:09,200
essence of it is is usually very similar

640
00:23:12,950 --> 00:23:10,720
what what happened with margarine is

641
00:23:15,830 --> 00:23:12,960
that originally margaret was

642
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:15,840
developed as a substitute for butter so

643
00:23:20,470 --> 00:23:18,400
it was napoleon that at some point said

644
00:23:23,270 --> 00:23:20,480
well we need butter for the army and we

645
00:23:25,909 --> 00:23:23,280
need butter for the lower socioeconomic

646
00:23:27,750 --> 00:23:25,919
classes so we need a substitute

647
00:23:29,029 --> 00:23:27,760
so he opened the competition and people

648
00:23:30,630 --> 00:23:29,039
entered that competition and they came

649
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,640
up with some solutions

650
00:23:34,710 --> 00:23:32,640
and after that when marketing was

651
00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:34,720
introduced

652
00:23:38,870 --> 00:23:36,960
it was seen as an inferior food it was

653
00:23:40,549 --> 00:23:38,880
seen as a fake food it's an imitation

654
00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:40,559
it's trying to be the real thing but

655
00:23:43,430 --> 00:23:42,320
it's starting from cheap ingredients and

656
00:23:44,789 --> 00:23:43,440
it's

657
00:23:47,190 --> 00:23:44,799
and that's why it was invented in the

658
00:23:49,830 --> 00:23:47,200
first place so it's an inferior

659
00:23:52,870 --> 00:23:49,840
substitute for the real thing and people

660
00:23:55,350 --> 00:23:52,880
have seen that as such for a long time

661
00:23:57,110 --> 00:23:55,360
until the moment came where

662
00:23:58,470 --> 00:23:57,120
clever positioning of that product

663
00:24:00,470 --> 00:23:58,480
because there were huge economical

664
00:24:02,149 --> 00:24:00,480
interests involved clever position of

665
00:24:04,390 --> 00:24:02,159
that product

666
00:24:07,110 --> 00:24:04,400
inverted the situation so that

667
00:24:09,590 --> 00:24:07,120
it became the superior product and they

668
00:24:11,669 --> 00:24:09,600
did this by connecting

669
00:24:13,909 --> 00:24:11,679
the image of margarine

670
00:24:15,430 --> 00:24:13,919
no longer with the cheap ingredients and

671
00:24:16,870 --> 00:24:15,440
so on but with

672
00:24:18,789 --> 00:24:16,880
progress

673
00:24:22,310 --> 00:24:18,799
it became a symbol it was presented as

674
00:24:24,390 --> 00:24:22,320
something modern it came from science

675
00:24:25,750 --> 00:24:24,400
there were even connections to feminist

676
00:24:27,590 --> 00:24:25,760
agendas you know what they were saying

677
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:27,600
that it empowers women one way or

678
00:24:30,789 --> 00:24:29,200
another

679
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:30,799
and many other things

680
00:24:36,549 --> 00:24:33,840
and the typical narrative was that this

681
00:24:38,230 --> 00:24:36,559
margarine as a matter of fact it tastes

682
00:24:39,669 --> 00:24:38,240
like butter it looks like butter it

683
00:24:41,990 --> 00:24:39,679
cooks like butter

684
00:24:43,909 --> 00:24:42,000
but it's better than butter because it

685
00:24:46,470 --> 00:24:43,919
also brings you peas and this and

686
00:24:48,070 --> 00:24:46,480
disadvantages which were then reinforced

687
00:24:50,149 --> 00:24:48,080
with the whole saturated fat theory

688
00:24:51,750 --> 00:24:50,159
coming from enzo keys implying that it's

689
00:24:52,950 --> 00:24:51,760
also more healthy

690
00:24:55,350 --> 00:24:52,960
and then there was a whole health

691
00:24:57,269 --> 00:24:55,360
connotation that increased the sales

692
00:24:59,430 --> 00:24:57,279
tremendously

693
00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:59,440
and people started to drop butter and

694
00:25:03,909 --> 00:25:01,679
they started to buy parchment

695
00:25:06,390 --> 00:25:03,919
until well we reached the point now that

696
00:25:07,590 --> 00:25:06,400
we know that was was a quite

697
00:25:08,950 --> 00:25:07,600
misleading

698
00:25:11,590 --> 00:25:08,960
campaign

699
00:25:13,510 --> 00:25:11,600
for all sorts of reasons but if you

700
00:25:15,350 --> 00:25:13,520
compare that to what is being done with

701
00:25:17,750 --> 00:25:15,360
the impossible foods and the pure meats

702
00:25:19,430 --> 00:25:17,760
and all those other products

703
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:19,440
you very typically find the same

704
00:25:22,470 --> 00:25:21,120
rationale they will say it's the same

705
00:25:24,149 --> 00:25:22,480
thing as meat

706
00:25:25,430 --> 00:25:24,159
they even at some point use the same

707
00:25:27,430 --> 00:25:25,440
slogans that they were using back then

708
00:25:30,630 --> 00:25:27,440
about cooking like meat and looking like

709
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:30,640
meat it's the same thing in all ways

710
00:25:34,470 --> 00:25:32,960
except that it's also much better for

711
00:25:36,549 --> 00:25:34,480
you and for the planet and for the

712
00:25:38,390 --> 00:25:36,559
animals and it's it's just a big bonus

713
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:38,400
that they promise you

714
00:25:43,110 --> 00:25:40,400
while guaranteeing

715
00:25:45,590 --> 00:25:43,120
at least that's what they say the same

716
00:25:47,029 --> 00:25:45,600
properties as the original

717
00:25:48,710 --> 00:25:47,039
so it's the same

718
00:25:50,870 --> 00:25:48,720
marketing idea

719
00:25:52,549 --> 00:25:50,880
creating lots of promises creating a

720
00:25:53,990 --> 00:25:52,559
narrative

721
00:25:55,990 --> 00:25:54,000
that has to be very strong to be

722
00:25:57,590 --> 00:25:56,000
effective so you need lots of media

723
00:25:58,950 --> 00:25:57,600
power behind it

724
00:26:00,149 --> 00:25:58,960
which they have

725
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:00,159
and then

726
00:26:03,909 --> 00:26:02,000
pushing out the other product the

727
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:03,919
original one and that's the intention of

728
00:26:07,750 --> 00:26:06,159
impossible food and we all meet and many

729
00:26:09,110 --> 00:26:07,760
other companies in that space the

730
00:26:11,350 --> 00:26:09,120
intention is

731
00:26:12,870 --> 00:26:11,360
to push out to animal source foods to

732
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:12,880
destroy animal agriculture they have

733
00:26:15,830 --> 00:26:14,880
stated so much

734
00:26:17,669 --> 00:26:15,840
so

735
00:26:19,269 --> 00:26:17,679
it's not that i'm against offering new

736
00:26:20,870 --> 00:26:19,279
options and you if people like it or

737
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:20,880
don't like it i will decide on its own

738
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:23,279
if that's a valuable product

739
00:26:27,110 --> 00:26:24,960
i'm certainly not against offering new

740
00:26:29,110 --> 00:26:27,120
options i'm absolutely not against

741
00:26:30,470 --> 00:26:29,120
people not wanting to eat meat and

742
00:26:32,470 --> 00:26:30,480
looking for other solutions i have

743
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:32,480
absolutely no issue with with vegans as

744
00:26:35,909 --> 00:26:34,159
long as it's a free choice

745
00:26:37,269 --> 00:26:35,919
but i have a huge problem with the

746
00:26:40,310 --> 00:26:37,279
attempt to

747
00:26:42,630 --> 00:26:40,320
in that process to vilify

748
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:42,640
those producers and farmers that come up

749
00:26:46,390 --> 00:26:43,919
with the

750
00:26:49,029 --> 00:26:46,400
original products and the outcomes of

751
00:26:50,710 --> 00:26:49,039
original farming and the benefits

752
00:26:53,669 --> 00:26:50,720
of

753
00:26:55,590 --> 00:26:53,679
farming if it's well performed because

754
00:26:57,669 --> 00:26:55,600
it's true that not all

755
00:26:59,990 --> 00:26:57,679
agricultural practices at this moment in

756
00:27:01,669 --> 00:27:00,000
time are beneficial and that's

757
00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:01,679
particularly valid also for the field of

758
00:27:06,470 --> 00:27:04,480
animal production there are issues

759
00:27:08,630 --> 00:27:06,480
but what they are trying to do is

760
00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:08,640
to vilify to that extent

761
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,480
that they would generate a collapse a

762
00:27:13,990 --> 00:27:12,240
complete destruction of animal

763
00:27:15,990 --> 00:27:14,000
agriculture and that is very very

764
00:27:17,190 --> 00:27:16,000
disturbing because then it would make us

765
00:27:18,149 --> 00:27:17,200
dependent

766
00:27:19,750 --> 00:27:18,159
on

767
00:27:21,190 --> 00:27:19,760
people producing those

768
00:27:23,269 --> 00:27:21,200
imitation foods

769
00:27:26,149 --> 00:27:23,279
right right it's hard to get back once

770
00:27:27,430 --> 00:27:26,159
it's lost and exactly in recent years we

771
00:27:28,950 --> 00:27:27,440
have really

772
00:27:32,310 --> 00:27:28,960
seen

773
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:32,320
a ramping up of corporate science of

774
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:36,000
science inc just this monolithic here is

775
00:27:39,990 --> 00:27:38,000
what the data says and there's only one

776
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:40,000
answer and we're giving it to you on a

777
00:27:45,510 --> 00:27:42,640
silver platter and you just need to obey

778
00:27:48,310 --> 00:27:45,520
that has been a theme lately and it's

779
00:27:51,110 --> 00:27:48,320
definitely spilling into the food area

780
00:27:52,710 --> 00:27:51,120
but how do we cut through

781
00:27:55,590 --> 00:27:52,720
some of that i guess we would say

782
00:27:57,750 --> 00:27:55,600
propaganda some of that marketing what

783
00:28:00,070 --> 00:27:57,760
does the actual

784
00:28:02,789 --> 00:28:00,080
evidence show i mean you as a

785
00:28:04,789 --> 00:28:02,799
nutritional food expert

786
00:28:07,830 --> 00:28:04,799
what would you say about

787
00:28:09,990 --> 00:28:07,840
the importance of red meat for some

788
00:28:12,789 --> 00:28:10,000
people maybe not everybody but

789
00:28:14,870 --> 00:28:12,799
especially compared to

790
00:28:17,190 --> 00:28:14,880
these replacement foods if we even have

791
00:28:19,029 --> 00:28:17,200
the data on the replacement foods

792
00:28:20,310 --> 00:28:19,039
well there's a bit of data but the

793
00:28:22,310 --> 00:28:20,320
problem is that

794
00:28:24,149 --> 00:28:22,320
the way it's presented even in

795
00:28:26,630 --> 00:28:24,159
scientific literature is extremely

796
00:28:27,430 --> 00:28:26,640
reductionist first of all the discussion

797
00:28:31,110 --> 00:28:27,440
is

798
00:28:33,510 --> 00:28:31,120
about protein so they're saying that we

799
00:28:34,389 --> 00:28:33,520
need a protein transition

800
00:28:36,789 --> 00:28:34,399
but

801
00:28:39,669 --> 00:28:36,799
thereby they are

802
00:28:41,909 --> 00:28:39,679
ignoring all the other nutritional

803
00:28:44,149 --> 00:28:41,919
factors that are present in food it's

804
00:28:45,830 --> 00:28:44,159
not only about protein and even if it is

805
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:45,840
about protein we need to think about

806
00:28:50,149 --> 00:28:48,000
protein quality not all protein is the

807
00:28:51,350 --> 00:28:50,159
same if you have 100 grams of

808
00:28:52,870 --> 00:28:51,360
meat you have

809
00:28:54,230 --> 00:28:52,880
high quality protein that is easily

810
00:28:56,789 --> 00:28:54,240
digestible has

811
00:28:59,750 --> 00:28:56,799
the proper spectrum of amino acids that

812
00:29:01,110 --> 00:28:59,760
you need proteins like serial proteins

813
00:29:03,909 --> 00:29:01,120
for instance if you take 100 grams of

814
00:29:06,070 --> 00:29:03,919
sero proteins well that's limited by the

815
00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:06,080
content of

816
00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:08,080
some amino acids especially lysine that

817
00:29:12,389 --> 00:29:10,320
are not sufficiently available so it

818
00:29:14,789 --> 00:29:12,399
takes down your protein value and those

819
00:29:16,950 --> 00:29:14,799
two proteins are not comparable

820
00:29:18,630 --> 00:29:16,960
so even that is an issue but an even

821
00:29:20,470 --> 00:29:18,640
larger issue is that you're ignoring all

822
00:29:23,190 --> 00:29:20,480
the other nutrients

823
00:29:24,830 --> 00:29:23,200
now if you take a piece of meat

824
00:29:26,389 --> 00:29:24,840
it's an extremely

825
00:29:30,470 --> 00:29:26,399
nutrient

826
00:29:31,350 --> 00:29:30,480
why is that because in the end meat is

827
00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:31,360
muscle

828
00:29:37,750 --> 00:29:35,440
what we need daily is to build our

829
00:29:39,510 --> 00:29:37,760
muscle muscle degrades and has to be

830
00:29:41,750 --> 00:29:39,520
built up all the time so we need

831
00:29:43,990 --> 00:29:41,760
substantial amounts of food of nutrients

832
00:29:45,669 --> 00:29:44,000
to build up those muscles and meat is

833
00:29:47,029 --> 00:29:45,679
very very compatible with our needs and

834
00:29:48,950 --> 00:29:47,039
that's logical

835
00:29:52,950 --> 00:29:48,960
right if you look at

836
00:29:53,830 --> 00:29:52,960
eggs and dairy eggs and dairy are meant

837
00:29:54,870 --> 00:29:53,840
to

838
00:29:57,510 --> 00:29:54,880
offer

839
00:29:59,110 --> 00:29:57,520
nutrient-dense packages

840
00:30:01,830 --> 00:29:59,120
to offspring

841
00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:01,840
so they're designed to be nutritionally

842
00:30:05,750 --> 00:30:03,520
extremely valuable

843
00:30:07,590 --> 00:30:05,760
so it's no wonder that they're also very

844
00:30:10,149 --> 00:30:07,600
interesting foods for humans

845
00:30:12,389 --> 00:30:10,159
now one can choose to drop to not to eat

846
00:30:14,230 --> 00:30:12,399
those foods that's an option

847
00:30:16,230 --> 00:30:14,240
and again if people want to do that for

848
00:30:18,630 --> 00:30:16,240
all sorts of reasons whether that's

849
00:30:21,029 --> 00:30:18,640
taste or religion

850
00:30:23,190 --> 00:30:21,039
or animal rights

851
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:23,200
feel free to do so but have in mind that

852
00:30:28,710 --> 00:30:26,399
if you do that it's not all that easy

853
00:30:30,870 --> 00:30:28,720
to cover those nutrients through plants

854
00:30:32,549 --> 00:30:30,880
only some of those nutrients are

855
00:30:35,269 --> 00:30:32,559
difficult to get through plants there

856
00:30:37,430 --> 00:30:35,279
are options you know you can supplement

857
00:30:39,190 --> 00:30:37,440
you can combine foods you can combine

858
00:30:41,830 --> 00:30:39,200
beans and cereals which

859
00:30:43,669 --> 00:30:41,840
improves your protein quality values

860
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:43,679
there are things you can do

861
00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:45,600
but

862
00:30:50,149 --> 00:30:47,360
you need a certain amount of nutritional

863
00:30:52,950 --> 00:30:50,159
awareness to do that you need to be able

864
00:30:55,510 --> 00:30:52,960
to buy the ingredients you require

865
00:30:58,789 --> 00:30:55,520
and it may not be for everybody

866
00:31:00,389 --> 00:30:58,799
nutrition is a very individual

867
00:31:02,070 --> 00:31:00,399
matter

868
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:02,080
some of the compounds that you find in

869
00:31:05,669 --> 00:31:03,600
plants

870
00:31:08,149 --> 00:31:05,679
will need to be converted in the human

871
00:31:09,909 --> 00:31:08,159
body to become the bioactive molecule

872
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:09,919
think about carotene

873
00:31:12,549 --> 00:31:11,039
carotene

874
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:12,559
is an orange pigment that you find in

875
00:31:17,029 --> 00:31:14,720
fruits and vegetables but you

876
00:31:18,710 --> 00:31:17,039
need to convert it to vitamin a in your

877
00:31:21,430 --> 00:31:18,720
body whereas if you obtain it from

878
00:31:22,789 --> 00:31:21,440
animal foods it's already pre-converted

879
00:31:24,389 --> 00:31:22,799
and that's just one example there are

880
00:31:27,669 --> 00:31:24,399
several compounds like that

881
00:31:28,630 --> 00:31:27,679
and not all people do those conversions

882
00:31:31,029 --> 00:31:28,640
well

883
00:31:33,110 --> 00:31:31,039
it varies very much from one individual

884
00:31:35,269 --> 00:31:33,120
to another so that explains probably

885
00:31:36,950 --> 00:31:35,279
also why some people are able to

886
00:31:39,830 --> 00:31:36,960
apparently thrive on a vegan diet and

887
00:31:43,269 --> 00:31:39,840
whereas others run into problems

888
00:31:46,149 --> 00:31:43,279
because of that individual variation so

889
00:31:47,590 --> 00:31:46,159
to summarize you can try to eliminate

890
00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:47,600
those food from your diet but you have

891
00:31:51,669 --> 00:31:49,440
to be very careful and conscious of what

892
00:31:53,110 --> 00:31:51,679
you're doing and replace what you lose

893
00:31:55,029 --> 00:31:53,120
there

894
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:55,039
sources valuable sources of very

895
00:31:58,830 --> 00:31:57,120
bioavailable nutrients

896
00:32:01,190 --> 00:31:58,840
and then you'll have to match

897
00:32:02,630 --> 00:32:01,200
those now that being said there is an

898
00:32:04,789 --> 00:32:02,640
argument also

899
00:32:08,070 --> 00:32:04,799
to reduce animal source foods to

900
00:32:10,230 --> 00:32:08,080
decrease the risk on chronic disease

901
00:32:12,310 --> 00:32:10,240
that's an argument you often hear in

902
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,320
defense of those people wanting to

903
00:32:16,710 --> 00:32:14,399
decrease or even eliminate

904
00:32:19,430 --> 00:32:16,720
lifelong agriculture because they create

905
00:32:22,149 --> 00:32:19,440
chronic disease they will admit

906
00:32:23,909 --> 00:32:22,159
well maybe not always but let's say

907
00:32:25,350 --> 00:32:23,919
probably in most cases they will admit

908
00:32:27,430 --> 00:32:25,360
that there are valuable nutrients in

909
00:32:29,909 --> 00:32:27,440
animal source foods but then they'll say

910
00:32:32,149 --> 00:32:29,919
well maybe but we can get those we'll

911
00:32:34,149 --> 00:32:32,159
supplement and then

912
00:32:36,710 --> 00:32:34,159
we will have less chronic disease

913
00:32:38,470 --> 00:32:36,720
now the science there is

914
00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,480
is complicated

915
00:32:42,470 --> 00:32:40,320
and why is it complicated because you

916
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:42,480
have various studies showing different

917
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,240
things

918
00:32:48,070 --> 00:32:46,080
saturated fat is a typical example for

919
00:32:49,830 --> 00:32:48,080
instance saturated fat people have long

920
00:32:51,590 --> 00:32:49,840
claim that saturated fat causes heart

921
00:32:52,789 --> 00:32:51,600
disease but if you look at all the

922
00:32:55,669 --> 00:32:52,799
evidence if you look at the mental

923
00:32:58,070 --> 00:32:55,679
analysis status nowadays that

924
00:33:00,470 --> 00:32:58,080
association is by far not so clear as i

925
00:33:02,950 --> 00:33:00,480
said then it may even not exist

926
00:33:04,870 --> 00:33:02,960
saturated fat also is a group of very

927
00:33:06,389 --> 00:33:04,880
different molecules you have saturated

928
00:33:07,590 --> 00:33:06,399
fatty acids they can be all sorts of

929
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:07,600
different

930
00:33:15,110 --> 00:33:13,120
individual susceptibility plays

931
00:33:16,630 --> 00:33:15,120
people respond differently to fat

932
00:33:18,389 --> 00:33:16,640
saturated fat

933
00:33:20,310 --> 00:33:18,399
and then the dietary context matters

934
00:33:22,789 --> 00:33:20,320
quite a bit

935
00:33:25,350 --> 00:33:22,799
red meat contains heme iron

936
00:33:27,269 --> 00:33:25,360
okay now that's a very good nutrient

937
00:33:30,230 --> 00:33:27,279
because there's a lot of iron deficiency

938
00:33:32,710 --> 00:33:30,240
even in the western populations we have

939
00:33:34,870 --> 00:33:32,720
considerable substantial

940
00:33:36,950 --> 00:33:34,880
amounts of especially women that are

941
00:33:38,710 --> 00:33:36,960
iron deficient in the west

942
00:33:40,470 --> 00:33:38,720
in the us in europe

943
00:33:40,800 --> 00:33:40,480
not only in the global south

944
00:33:42,149 --> 00:33:40,810
and

945
00:33:44,070 --> 00:33:42,159
[Music]

946
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:44,080
iron heme iron which is a very

947
00:33:48,630 --> 00:33:46,000
bioavailable form of

948
00:33:49,830 --> 00:33:48,640
iron in red meat is therefore very

949
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:49,840
beneficial

950
00:33:53,590 --> 00:33:51,840
and is a good reason to eat red meat

951
00:33:56,549 --> 00:33:53,600
however some people

952
00:33:58,549 --> 00:33:56,559
because of their again individual status

953
00:33:59,590 --> 00:33:58,559
accumulate iron and if you accumulate

954
00:34:00,549 --> 00:33:59,600
iron

955
00:34:02,389 --> 00:34:00,559
that is

956
00:34:04,389 --> 00:34:02,399
a risk factor and then you may have a

957
00:34:06,470 --> 00:34:04,399
problem so if you're a kind of person

958
00:34:08,310 --> 00:34:06,480
that accumulates iron you can see that

959
00:34:10,230 --> 00:34:08,320
in your blood values well then you

960
00:34:11,990 --> 00:34:10,240
better be careful with meat if you have

961
00:34:12,869 --> 00:34:12,000
too little iron then it's an excellent

962
00:34:15,190 --> 00:34:12,879
food

963
00:34:17,190 --> 00:34:15,200
so that shows you that it's a very

964
00:34:19,430 --> 00:34:17,200
individual aspect

965
00:34:21,589 --> 00:34:19,440
and that on a population

966
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:21,599
basis we should be very careful with

967
00:34:27,669 --> 00:34:24,960
giving blanket recommendations like that

968
00:34:29,430 --> 00:34:27,679
yeah i appreciate the nuanced look at it

969
00:34:31,669 --> 00:34:29,440
i mean

970
00:34:34,470 --> 00:34:31,679
anecdotally i know people

971
00:34:37,190 --> 00:34:34,480
who survive on a vegan diet i wouldn't

972
00:34:39,109 --> 00:34:37,200
say they thrive they get through the day

973
00:34:41,510 --> 00:34:39,119
but they don't seem

974
00:34:42,550 --> 00:34:41,520
particularly strong or robust

975
00:34:44,069 --> 00:34:42,560
and

976
00:34:46,950 --> 00:34:44,079
there's probably something to say about

977
00:34:49,190 --> 00:34:46,960
the brain gut connection as well and

978
00:34:51,430 --> 00:34:49,200
people who are nutrient deficient suffer

979
00:34:52,310 --> 00:34:51,440
from brain fog and that sort of thing

980
00:34:54,389 --> 00:34:52,320
which

981
00:34:56,310 --> 00:34:54,399
i think might be a happy accident for

982
00:34:58,870 --> 00:34:56,320
the elite i don't think they care if

983
00:35:01,190 --> 00:34:58,880
we're functioning at high capacity

984
00:35:03,510 --> 00:35:01,200
on a mass scale and there also might be

985
00:35:06,950 --> 00:35:03,520
something to be said about

986
00:35:08,069 --> 00:35:06,960
degrading our meat and our eggs and our

987
00:35:09,910 --> 00:35:08,079
dairy

988
00:35:13,190 --> 00:35:09,920
because a lot of it you know now it

989
00:35:15,109 --> 00:35:13,200
comes from corn fed overcrowded animals

990
00:35:17,990 --> 00:35:15,119
that never see the sun

991
00:35:20,630 --> 00:35:18,000
and so it's an easier comparison to make

992
00:35:22,710 --> 00:35:20,640
if you degrade the quality really low

993
00:35:26,150 --> 00:35:22,720
then you can compare it to the beyond

994
00:35:28,150 --> 00:35:26,160
burger or the just egg soy based egg

995
00:35:30,870 --> 00:35:28,160
bottle and say well look it's not that

996
00:35:31,910 --> 00:35:30,880
much different but yet i've seen reports

997
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:31,920
from

998
00:35:37,589 --> 00:35:35,040
grass-fed pasture-raised cows or

999
00:35:38,710 --> 00:35:37,599
chickens who really live just as natural

1000
00:35:41,190 --> 00:35:38,720
as can be

1001
00:35:44,230 --> 00:35:41,200
and the nutrient density it's off the

1002
00:35:46,150 --> 00:35:44,240
charts different from factory food so if

1003
00:35:48,310 --> 00:35:46,160
you want to compare your lab made

1004
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:48,320
franken food to that stuff i think

1005
00:35:51,510 --> 00:35:49,680
you're going to have a hard time making

1006
00:35:52,870 --> 00:35:51,520
your case

1007
00:35:54,230 --> 00:35:52,880
well and especially there's something

1008
00:35:56,950 --> 00:35:54,240
that is even more

1009
00:36:00,310 --> 00:35:56,960
playing that is that if you insert a

1010
00:36:01,990 --> 00:36:00,320
food in a specific dietary context and

1011
00:36:03,430 --> 00:36:02,000
you compare it with the same food in

1012
00:36:04,870 --> 00:36:03,440
another dietary context you get

1013
00:36:07,349 --> 00:36:04,880
completely different results so if you

1014
00:36:09,430 --> 00:36:07,359
set up a study where you include meat

1015
00:36:11,430 --> 00:36:09,440
and the rest of your diet is really crap

1016
00:36:13,670 --> 00:36:11,440
then meat

1017
00:36:15,829 --> 00:36:13,680
will be associated with bad health

1018
00:36:19,030 --> 00:36:15,839
through the whole dietary package

1019
00:36:21,829 --> 00:36:19,040
if you insert your meat in a healthy

1020
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:21,839
dietary context you'll see that meat

1021
00:36:26,790 --> 00:36:24,079
goes together with improved health

1022
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,800
so we have studies to show that so in

1023
00:36:29,829 --> 00:36:28,320
other words the background diet the

1024
00:36:32,150 --> 00:36:29,839
lifestyle

1025
00:36:34,069 --> 00:36:32,160
all those things will be

1026
00:36:36,390 --> 00:36:34,079
determining if the effects of meat are

1027
00:36:38,310 --> 00:36:36,400
net positive or net negative

1028
00:36:40,390 --> 00:36:38,320
and then of course usually they cherry

1029
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:40,400
pick those ones that are

1030
00:36:47,270 --> 00:36:43,599
depicting meat as harmful now the whole

1031
00:36:49,670 --> 00:36:47,280
nutritional science paradigm is built on

1032
00:36:51,349 --> 00:36:49,680
epidemiology of chronic disease which

1033
00:36:52,790 --> 00:36:51,359
means that those are observational

1034
00:36:54,950 --> 00:36:52,800
studies they look at people what they

1035
00:36:56,069 --> 00:36:54,960
eat and they look at how healthy they

1036
00:36:57,190 --> 00:36:56,079
are and then they make connection

1037
00:36:58,790 --> 00:36:57,200
between both

1038
00:37:01,270 --> 00:36:58,800
but it's extremely important to

1039
00:37:02,950 --> 00:37:01,280
understand that those are associations

1040
00:37:05,270 --> 00:37:02,960
and that those associations first of all

1041
00:37:07,670 --> 00:37:05,280
are weak they're not very strong

1042
00:37:10,230 --> 00:37:07,680
and they're very confounded

1043
00:37:12,310 --> 00:37:10,240
they're confounded because people that

1044
00:37:13,750 --> 00:37:12,320
tend to eat less meat are the as we said

1045
00:37:16,069 --> 00:37:13,760
before they are the

1046
00:37:17,589 --> 00:37:16,079
obedient moral citizens that listen to

1047
00:37:19,190 --> 00:37:17,599
advice and

1048
00:37:21,030 --> 00:37:19,200
they follow all sorts of advice they go

1049
00:37:23,670 --> 00:37:21,040
more to the doctor they drink less they

1050
00:37:25,670 --> 00:37:23,680
smoke less they have more physical

1051
00:37:27,510 --> 00:37:25,680
activity compared to the people that eat

1052
00:37:28,950 --> 00:37:27,520
more meat on average not everybody of

1053
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:28,960
course but on average this turns out to

1054
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,640
be the case and that's what they call

1055
00:37:34,630 --> 00:37:32,800
the healthy user bias

1056
00:37:36,390 --> 00:37:34,640
now what they do is they try to correct

1057
00:37:37,829 --> 00:37:36,400
statistically for those effects

1058
00:37:39,430 --> 00:37:37,839
statistically they try to correct for

1059
00:37:41,109 --> 00:37:39,440
the effect of smoking and the effect of

1060
00:37:43,589 --> 00:37:41,119
this and the effect of that

1061
00:37:45,589 --> 00:37:43,599
but you cannot correct for everything

1062
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,599
there is an inherent bias there that you

1063
00:37:48,790 --> 00:37:47,760
cannot rule out if the associations are

1064
00:37:51,270 --> 00:37:48,800
so weak

1065
00:37:53,109 --> 00:37:51,280
so all those studies are probably

1066
00:37:55,510 --> 00:37:53,119
there's a high risk that those studies

1067
00:37:57,270 --> 00:37:55,520
are just capturing an artifact as a

1068
00:37:59,510 --> 00:37:57,280
matter of fact if you look on a global

1069
00:38:01,190 --> 00:37:59,520
scale if you look outside of the western

1070
00:38:02,470 --> 00:38:01,200
context especially the united states

1071
00:38:04,230 --> 00:38:02,480
context

1072
00:38:06,310 --> 00:38:04,240
then you see the opposite then you see

1073
00:38:08,069 --> 00:38:06,320
then what is found in the us you see

1074
00:38:09,589 --> 00:38:08,079
very often then that

1075
00:38:11,750 --> 00:38:09,599
the more red meat people eat the

1076
00:38:14,550 --> 00:38:11,760
healthier they are and again that's not

1077
00:38:16,710 --> 00:38:14,560
necessarily a true causal relationship

1078
00:38:18,710 --> 00:38:16,720
it may as well be because in low-income

1079
00:38:20,710 --> 00:38:18,720
countries if you eat more meat you're

1080
00:38:22,870 --> 00:38:20,720
richer and if you're richer you have

1081
00:38:25,109 --> 00:38:22,880
better health because you can afford to

1082
00:38:27,030 --> 00:38:25,119
go to health care and so on so it's

1083
00:38:29,510 --> 00:38:27,040
extremely difficult to get

1084
00:38:30,550 --> 00:38:29,520
useful information from those kind of

1085
00:38:33,190 --> 00:38:30,560
studies

1086
00:38:35,190 --> 00:38:33,200
and that's being just brushed away as

1087
00:38:36,870 --> 00:38:35,200
irrelevant and they just

1088
00:38:38,630 --> 00:38:36,880
use those studies that are supporting

1089
00:38:39,829 --> 00:38:38,640
their case and they forget about all the

1090
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:39,839
other things

1091
00:38:44,390 --> 00:38:42,400
and they never contextualize it so

1092
00:38:46,390 --> 00:38:44,400
because nutritional sciences are so

1093
00:38:48,710 --> 00:38:46,400
fuzzy and so difficult

1094
00:38:49,829 --> 00:38:48,720
and rather unable to come up with hard

1095
00:38:52,069 --> 00:38:49,839
evidence

1096
00:38:54,630 --> 00:38:52,079
they use that fuzziness and they profit

1097
00:38:57,030 --> 00:38:54,640
from that fuzziness to advance the

1098
00:38:59,109 --> 00:38:57,040
theories and arguments they prefer which

1099
00:39:00,630 --> 00:38:59,119
in this case is saying that meat is an

1100
00:39:01,990 --> 00:39:00,640
unhealthy food

1101
00:39:04,950 --> 00:39:02,000
right right

1102
00:39:06,710 --> 00:39:04,960
great points again and let's talk about

1103
00:39:09,670 --> 00:39:06,720
the big they and some of these

1104
00:39:12,390 --> 00:39:09,680
organizations we have currently

1105
00:39:14,230 --> 00:39:12,400
that are pushing this stuff and what

1106
00:39:17,270 --> 00:39:14,240
they say they're trying to do because we

1107
00:39:20,390 --> 00:39:17,280
have the eat lancet commission last year

1108
00:39:22,630 --> 00:39:20,400
there was a un food system summit the

1109
00:39:25,030 --> 00:39:22,640
rockefellers reset the table project

1110
00:39:26,310 --> 00:39:25,040
these are just some of the names but

1111
00:39:28,550 --> 00:39:26,320
what can you tell us about this

1112
00:39:31,349 --> 00:39:28,560
interlocking network today and this

1113
00:39:34,390 --> 00:39:31,359
revolving door between food tech we

1114
00:39:36,470 --> 00:39:34,400
might call it an actual policy makers

1115
00:39:39,270 --> 00:39:36,480
because it does seem like we have some

1116
00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:39,280
regulatory capture in this area and it

1117
00:39:43,030 --> 00:39:41,280
seems like they're ramping up their

1118
00:39:45,750 --> 00:39:43,040
agendas

1119
00:39:46,790 --> 00:39:45,760
there's a network here that consists of

1120
00:39:48,390 --> 00:39:46,800
usually

1121
00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:48,400
always the same players so there are a

1122
00:39:54,069 --> 00:39:50,800
couple of players in the arena are

1123
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:54,079
pushing very hard to get to a global

1124
00:39:58,630 --> 00:39:56,720
diet that is low in animal source foods

1125
00:40:00,870 --> 00:39:58,640
and within that network you find

1126
00:40:02,790 --> 00:40:00,880
organizations that are not new well you

1127
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,800
mentioned eat eat is a new foundation

1128
00:40:06,390 --> 00:40:04,480
but then again its founder is a young

1129
00:40:08,470 --> 00:40:06,400
global leader of world economic forum

1130
00:40:10,790 --> 00:40:08,480
it's very much embedded in the whole

1131
00:40:12,390 --> 00:40:10,800
structure of davos and it's also

1132
00:40:13,829 --> 00:40:12,400
connected to the world business council

1133
00:40:16,150 --> 00:40:13,839
for sustainable development they have a

1134
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,160
formal program with

1135
00:40:20,390 --> 00:40:18,880
wbcsd the world business council that is

1136
00:40:22,630 --> 00:40:20,400
called the fresh initiative and in the

1137
00:40:24,390 --> 00:40:22,640
fresh initiative you have all the major

1138
00:40:26,550 --> 00:40:24,400
multinational companies

1139
00:40:28,950 --> 00:40:26,560
so not only is wbcsd connected to the

1140
00:40:31,190 --> 00:40:28,960
world economic forum it also represents

1141
00:40:33,589 --> 00:40:31,200
all the major multinational companies

1142
00:40:35,349 --> 00:40:33,599
that produce food or big producers of

1143
00:40:36,870 --> 00:40:35,359
fertilizers and

1144
00:40:37,750 --> 00:40:36,880
all the big players are there and

1145
00:40:39,430 --> 00:40:37,760
they're

1146
00:40:41,030 --> 00:40:39,440
very tightly connected to the eat

1147
00:40:42,710 --> 00:40:41,040
foundation so

1148
00:40:46,150 --> 00:40:42,720
this whole network

1149
00:40:47,670 --> 00:40:46,160
is really situated in that

1150
00:40:49,829 --> 00:40:47,680
constellation

1151
00:40:53,670 --> 00:40:49,839
world economic forum rockefeller

1152
00:40:56,150 --> 00:40:53,680
foundation will resources institute

1153
00:40:59,430 --> 00:40:56,160
club of rome is there still

1154
00:41:01,829 --> 00:40:59,440
and a couple of other ones and they are

1155
00:41:03,589 --> 00:41:01,839
very very powerful because they are very

1156
00:41:05,990 --> 00:41:03,599
influential

1157
00:41:08,550 --> 00:41:06,000
they have connections to political

1158
00:41:10,069 --> 00:41:08,560
circles they have connections to the

1159
00:41:11,750 --> 00:41:10,079
united nations because the world

1160
00:41:13,910 --> 00:41:11,760
economic forum

1161
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:13,920
not so long ago entered in a formal

1162
00:41:16,790 --> 00:41:16,079
partnership with

1163
00:41:20,870 --> 00:41:16,800
the

1164
00:41:23,190 --> 00:41:20,880
sustainable development goals so that

1165
00:41:24,870 --> 00:41:23,200
we'll do that together as partners

1166
00:41:26,069 --> 00:41:24,880
and of course food is a very big part of

1167
00:41:30,790 --> 00:41:26,079
that

1168
00:41:33,190 --> 00:41:30,800
united nations food system summit

1169
00:41:36,390 --> 00:41:33,200
we could clearly see the hand of

1170
00:41:37,510 --> 00:41:36,400
davos and the world economic forum there

1171
00:41:39,190 --> 00:41:37,520
and the world business council for

1172
00:41:42,069 --> 00:41:39,200
sustainable development

1173
00:41:43,349 --> 00:41:42,079
and that food system summit was meant to

1174
00:41:45,829 --> 00:41:43,359
impose

1175
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:45,839
a new food system on the entire planet

1176
00:41:50,790 --> 00:41:48,000
by connecting it to the united nations

1177
00:41:53,430 --> 00:41:50,800
and by doing so creating a transnational

1178
00:41:55,349 --> 00:41:53,440
movement a transnational framework that

1179
00:41:57,190 --> 00:41:55,359
would then trickle down to the various

1180
00:41:58,230 --> 00:41:57,200
different countries that would have to

1181
00:42:00,390 --> 00:41:58,240
adopt it

1182
00:42:02,309 --> 00:42:00,400
now that seemed to be the original idea

1183
00:42:04,230 --> 00:42:02,319
it didn't work out you know it failed

1184
00:42:07,030 --> 00:42:04,240
there were a number of reasons why that

1185
00:42:09,030 --> 00:42:07,040
failed but it didn't work out that way

1186
00:42:11,430 --> 00:42:09,040
what we see is that

1187
00:42:13,510 --> 00:42:11,440
the representatives in the summit

1188
00:42:15,589 --> 00:42:13,520
after the summit they have now

1189
00:42:17,430 --> 00:42:15,599
reconfigurated themselves and they are

1190
00:42:19,670 --> 00:42:17,440
now entering something called if i'm not

1191
00:42:20,950 --> 00:42:19,680
mistaking the food forward coalition and

1192
00:42:23,109 --> 00:42:20,960
they have

1193
00:42:24,950 --> 00:42:23,119
combined their organizations their

1194
00:42:27,270 --> 00:42:24,960
efforts with the club of rome who will

1195
00:42:28,790 --> 00:42:27,280
now also be part of this so there will

1196
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:28,800
be next steps

1197
00:42:33,589 --> 00:42:31,920
and it will be a continuous process

1198
00:42:35,270 --> 00:42:33,599
we'll see

1199
00:42:37,430 --> 00:42:35,280
a lot of that in the in the coming

1200
00:42:39,910 --> 00:42:37,440
months and years it's not going to slow

1201
00:42:44,710 --> 00:42:42,470
yeah and i pulled some details from

1202
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:44,720
previous presentations and interviews

1203
00:42:48,950 --> 00:42:46,240
you've given one of them that's kind of

1204
00:42:51,430 --> 00:42:48,960
scary is on the eat advisory board is

1205
00:42:53,190 --> 00:42:51,440
mark wilson the director of blackrock

1206
00:42:55,750 --> 00:42:53,200
the world's largest shadow bank we've

1207
00:42:58,470 --> 00:42:55,760
talked about them before and part of his

1208
00:43:00,630 --> 00:42:58,480
role apparently is to rate companies

1209
00:43:03,270 --> 00:43:00,640
based on their compliance with these

1210
00:43:04,790 --> 00:43:03,280
food goals and then based on the score

1211
00:43:07,270 --> 00:43:04,800
of the company

1212
00:43:10,470 --> 00:43:07,280
some will rise and some will fall by the

1213
00:43:13,109 --> 00:43:10,480
amount of investment they can get or not

1214
00:43:15,670 --> 00:43:13,119
get and i think i've heard this referred

1215
00:43:18,069 --> 00:43:15,680
to as esg scores but this might be a

1216
00:43:21,030 --> 00:43:18,079
little different but this is a huge

1217
00:43:23,109 --> 00:43:21,040
thing because a lot of money is wrapped

1218
00:43:26,150 --> 00:43:23,119
up in these large investment firms and

1219
00:43:27,910 --> 00:43:26,160
if you're gonna rate every individual

1220
00:43:30,150 --> 00:43:27,920
corporation

1221
00:43:33,030 --> 00:43:30,160
in terms of how they play ball with your

1222
00:43:35,349 --> 00:43:33,040
food agendas that's a lot of power

1223
00:43:37,750 --> 00:43:35,359
one can ask himself or herself the

1224
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:37,760
question what is blackrock doing on the

1225
00:43:41,030 --> 00:43:39,440
advisory board of the eid foundation a

1226
00:43:43,430 --> 00:43:41,040
foundation that is

1227
00:43:45,109 --> 00:43:43,440
meant to look at food and optimize food

1228
00:43:48,790 --> 00:43:45,119
and function of health of humans and the

1229
00:43:50,630 --> 00:43:48,800
planet what is blackrock doing there

1230
00:43:52,829 --> 00:43:50,640
i think

1231
00:43:56,470 --> 00:43:52,839
that one of the major strategies in the

1232
00:43:58,390 --> 00:43:56,480
next months will be somebody starting

1233
00:43:59,589 --> 00:43:58,400
will be a battle over

1234
00:44:04,150 --> 00:43:59,599
words

1235
00:44:10,230 --> 00:44:04,160
concepts

1236
00:44:11,270 --> 00:44:10,240
instance one example is the true cost of

1237
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:11,280
food

1238
00:44:16,870 --> 00:44:14,480
hear that often

1239
00:44:19,109 --> 00:44:16,880
we have to pay for food not the cost we

1240
00:44:21,670 --> 00:44:19,119
pay in the supermarket but the true cost

1241
00:44:23,750 --> 00:44:21,680
now if you define what is the true cost

1242
00:44:26,390 --> 00:44:23,760
then you define the price and you define

1243
00:44:27,589 --> 00:44:26,400
the policy they talk about a just

1244
00:44:29,910 --> 00:44:27,599
transition

1245
00:44:31,589 --> 00:44:29,920
what does just mean

1246
00:44:33,270 --> 00:44:31,599
so there are all sorts of words healthy

1247
00:44:34,470 --> 00:44:33,280
what is healthy you know the definition

1248
00:44:36,550 --> 00:44:34,480
of healthy

1249
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:36,560
the definition of sustainable

1250
00:44:40,630 --> 00:44:38,240
there will be a huge battle over words

1251
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:40,640
and if you control those words

1252
00:44:45,270 --> 00:44:43,280
then you control also the

1253
00:44:46,710 --> 00:44:45,280
sdgs the sustainable development goals

1254
00:44:48,630 --> 00:44:46,720
which are the targets set forward by the

1255
00:44:50,069 --> 00:44:48,640
united nations and where the world

1256
00:44:51,750 --> 00:44:50,079
economic pharma has declared that it

1257
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,760
will do everything to advance those

1258
00:44:54,790 --> 00:44:53,280
sustainable development goals now those

1259
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:54,800
defendable development goals in

1260
00:44:59,670 --> 00:44:57,119
principle that sound good

1261
00:45:01,829 --> 00:44:59,680
it's about ending hunger and it's about

1262
00:45:02,950 --> 00:45:01,839
having healthy oceans and so on and so

1263
00:45:06,069 --> 00:45:02,960
on

1264
00:45:07,990 --> 00:45:06,079
however if you start defining the words

1265
00:45:09,430 --> 00:45:08,000
used on this in those sdgs according to

1266
00:45:12,710 --> 00:45:09,440
your own agenda

1267
00:45:14,230 --> 00:45:12,720
then it becomes a powerful tool

1268
00:45:16,550 --> 00:45:14,240
now what blackrock is doing and what

1269
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:16,560
other organizations are doing blackrock

1270
00:45:19,829 --> 00:45:18,720
is an extremely powerful player but you

1271
00:45:21,510 --> 00:45:19,839
also have

1272
00:45:23,510 --> 00:45:21,520
less well-known organizations such as

1273
00:45:26,309 --> 00:45:23,520
the world benchmarking alliance where

1274
00:45:29,190 --> 00:45:26,319
you have eat foundation you have wbcsd

1275
00:45:30,710 --> 00:45:29,200
there it's again the same players

1276
00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:30,720
and the world benchmarking alliance

1277
00:45:36,150 --> 00:45:33,520
wants to benchmark companies

1278
00:45:36,950 --> 00:45:36,160
according to how well they meet

1279
00:45:38,870 --> 00:45:36,960
the

1280
00:45:39,829 --> 00:45:38,880
sustainable development goals

1281
00:45:44,390 --> 00:45:39,839
so

1282
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:44,400
the idea is to upgrade or downgrade

1283
00:45:49,589 --> 00:45:47,119
attractiveness of companies so that

1284
00:45:50,790 --> 00:45:49,599
investors will either endorse them or

1285
00:45:53,349 --> 00:45:50,800
drop them

1286
00:45:54,950 --> 00:45:53,359
and if you can get such a control over

1287
00:45:57,670 --> 00:45:54,960
market attractiveness then you can

1288
00:45:59,030 --> 00:45:57,680
destroy a company or you can boost the

1289
00:46:00,470 --> 00:45:59,040
company

1290
00:46:02,390 --> 00:46:00,480
so there's a lot of interest at play

1291
00:46:05,030 --> 00:46:02,400
here this is an extremely powerful

1292
00:46:08,630 --> 00:46:05,040
approach to the market you can destroy

1293
00:46:10,309 --> 00:46:08,640
or boost the company at your will

1294
00:46:12,630 --> 00:46:10,319
by defining

1295
00:46:14,870 --> 00:46:12,640
the rules that are to be respected in

1296
00:46:17,030 --> 00:46:14,880
this game here and that means a semantic

1297
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:17,040
battle it means defining what a certain

1298
00:46:21,190 --> 00:46:18,720
concept means so there's going to be a

1299
00:46:24,550 --> 00:46:21,200
lot of science

1300
00:46:26,950 --> 00:46:24,560
that will be created to support those

1301
00:46:29,589 --> 00:46:26,960
semantic shifts and discussions there's

1302
00:46:32,150 --> 00:46:29,599
a whole factory of scientific papers

1303
00:46:33,750 --> 00:46:32,160
going on trying to fill in what it means

1304
00:46:35,510 --> 00:46:33,760
to be sustainable what it means to be

1305
00:46:37,030 --> 00:46:35,520
healthy what it means to be just and

1306
00:46:38,950 --> 00:46:37,040
what it means to be

1307
00:46:42,069 --> 00:46:38,960
a true cost of a food

1308
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:42,079
and various other concepts in that space

1309
00:46:46,069 --> 00:46:43,599
right right

1310
00:46:48,790 --> 00:46:46,079
and there are a lot of interesting

1311
00:46:51,109 --> 00:46:48,800
quotes and strategies from these people

1312
00:46:52,710 --> 00:46:51,119
that i want to get to but

1313
00:46:55,589 --> 00:46:52,720
in the first hour i want to make sure

1314
00:46:58,870 --> 00:46:55,599
this gets in here but i learned about

1315
00:47:00,790 --> 00:46:58,880
the c40 cities initiative from you and

1316
00:47:02,270 --> 00:47:00,800
it's quite concerning anyone can go to

1317
00:47:05,510 --> 00:47:02,280
their website

1318
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:05,520
c40cities.org and it defines itself as a

1319
00:47:10,150 --> 00:47:08,000
global network of mayors taking urgent

1320
00:47:11,990 --> 00:47:10,160
action to confront the climate crisis

1321
00:47:15,270 --> 00:47:12,000
and create a future where everyone can

1322
00:47:18,470 --> 00:47:15,280
thrive and they state their planetary

1323
00:47:22,470 --> 00:47:18,480
health diet goals quite clearly their

1324
00:47:25,030 --> 00:47:22,480
progressive target is 16 kilograms of

1325
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:25,040
meat 90 kilograms of dairy

1326
00:47:30,309 --> 00:47:27,200
per person which i understand is not

1327
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:30,319
much but they go on to say their

1328
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:34,559
perfection target is zero meat and zero

1329
00:47:40,790 --> 00:47:38,400
dairy by 2030 for everyone and the

1330
00:47:43,589 --> 00:47:40,800
mayors who have signed on to this would

1331
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:43,599
be directing policy in cities like

1332
00:47:52,309 --> 00:47:48,000
barcelona copenhagen guadalajara lima

1333
00:47:56,549 --> 00:47:52,319
london los angeles milan paris seoul

1334
00:47:59,990 --> 00:47:56,559
stockholm tokyo toronto and more and

1335
00:48:02,069 --> 00:48:00,000
this is just so insane that they plainly

1336
00:48:05,109 --> 00:48:02,079
state we want you to have no meat no

1337
00:48:07,750 --> 00:48:05,119
dairy by 2030 a very short time

1338
00:48:09,510 --> 00:48:07,760
and people need to be aware that this is

1339
00:48:12,549 --> 00:48:09,520
really happening right in front of their

1340
00:48:15,430 --> 00:48:12,559
eyes and if you want traditional

1341
00:48:17,910 --> 00:48:15,440
foods high quality sustainable

1342
00:48:20,470 --> 00:48:17,920
traditional foods to be around the time

1343
00:48:24,069 --> 00:48:20,480
to use your money to keep these

1344
00:48:25,670 --> 00:48:24,079
businesses intact is like yesterday and

1345
00:48:27,349 --> 00:48:25,680
you better take it pretty seriously

1346
00:48:28,230 --> 00:48:27,359
because this is what we're up against

1347
00:48:30,309 --> 00:48:28,240
and that's

1348
00:48:31,990 --> 00:48:30,319
really insane

1349
00:48:33,910 --> 00:48:32,000
well i don't think they will achieve

1350
00:48:35,349 --> 00:48:33,920
that so i don't think we need to connect

1351
00:48:37,270 --> 00:48:35,359
with that degree but it's it's very

1352
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:37,280
concerning and worrying

1353
00:48:42,630 --> 00:48:40,319
nonetheless because it will create harp

1354
00:48:44,309 --> 00:48:42,640
i mean if you set a target that extreme

1355
00:48:47,270 --> 00:48:44,319
even if you don't achieve it you will

1356
00:48:49,109 --> 00:48:47,280
still create harm yes and even new york

1357
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:49,119
joined us as well if i'm not mistaken as

1358
00:48:52,630 --> 00:48:50,880
an extra city not so long ago you've

1359
00:48:54,390 --> 00:48:52,640
seen what came out of the policies in

1360
00:48:55,589 --> 00:48:54,400
new york already with the mayor going

1361
00:48:58,069 --> 00:48:55,599
clearly for

1362
00:49:01,430 --> 00:48:58,079
anti-meat policy

1363
00:49:03,349 --> 00:49:01,440
so the c-40 cities initiative is a

1364
00:49:05,349 --> 00:49:03,359
broader initiative

1365
00:49:06,710 --> 00:49:05,359
and it probably talks about food it

1366
00:49:08,950 --> 00:49:06,720
talks about all sorts of different

1367
00:49:10,630 --> 00:49:08,960
things targets for food you mentioned

1368
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,640
are the actual targets of the eat

1369
00:49:15,109 --> 00:49:12,960
landsat diets so the so-called

1370
00:49:17,670 --> 00:49:15,119
progressive target are the

1371
00:49:19,430 --> 00:49:17,680
suggested amounts of the eat lancet diet

1372
00:49:20,630 --> 00:49:19,440
those kilograms if you think about it

1373
00:49:21,510 --> 00:49:20,640
it's not much

1374
00:49:23,030 --> 00:49:21,520
try to

1375
00:49:24,790 --> 00:49:23,040
figure out for yourself what it means 16

1376
00:49:26,549 --> 00:49:24,800
kilograms of meat per person per year

1377
00:49:28,710 --> 00:49:26,559
it's not much and especially red meat is

1378
00:49:31,510 --> 00:49:28,720
discouraged right it should be poultry

1379
00:49:33,510 --> 00:49:31,520
mostly most of all and then and the

1380
00:49:35,670 --> 00:49:33,520
ambitious target of zero is also an

1381
00:49:37,670 --> 00:49:35,680
option in the lancet diet the eat lancet

1382
00:49:38,630 --> 00:49:37,680
diet allows you to have vegan options as

1383
00:49:40,069 --> 00:49:38,640
well

1384
00:49:41,829 --> 00:49:40,079
but you have to supplement with b12

1385
00:49:44,309 --> 00:49:41,839
that's the only site

1386
00:49:47,270 --> 00:49:44,319
common they have so it ranges between

1387
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,280
zero and those upper limits but they

1388
00:49:51,030 --> 00:49:49,119
don't allow you to have more than that

1389
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:51,040
so these targets are not coming out of

1390
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:52,160
the blue they're coming from the heat

1391
00:49:55,670 --> 00:49:53,520
landsat report

1392
00:49:58,470 --> 00:49:55,680
but they don't just talk about food they

1393
00:50:00,230 --> 00:49:58,480
also talk about for instance clothing

1394
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:00,240
they say that you should not have more

1395
00:50:06,390 --> 00:50:03,520
than three clothing items per year

1396
00:50:08,710 --> 00:50:06,400
right it's one of their targets 2030.

1397
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:08,720
they say that you should not own any

1398
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:09,680
more

1399
00:50:13,670 --> 00:50:11,599
private vehicles you shouldn't have any

1400
00:50:15,430 --> 00:50:13,680
private vehicles by 2030 in their

1401
00:50:17,030 --> 00:50:15,440
ambitious target

1402
00:50:18,710 --> 00:50:17,040
in their progressive target they say you

1403
00:50:20,710 --> 00:50:18,720
can have about 200 vehicles per thousand

1404
00:50:24,069 --> 00:50:20,720
people but in their ambitious target

1405
00:50:25,750 --> 00:50:24,079
zero vehicles not private ones

1406
00:50:27,750 --> 00:50:25,760
you could fly

1407
00:50:29,349 --> 00:50:27,760
once every two three years short

1408
00:50:31,589 --> 00:50:29,359
distances

1409
00:50:33,990 --> 00:50:31,599
so it's a almost totalitarian

1410
00:50:36,390 --> 00:50:34,000
interventionist program

1411
00:50:37,430 --> 00:50:36,400
and mayors have signed up for this

1412
00:50:39,270 --> 00:50:37,440
which is

1413
00:50:40,390 --> 00:50:39,280
incredible

1414
00:50:42,549 --> 00:50:40,400
not just

1415
00:50:44,069 --> 00:50:42,559
exotic cities you know leading global

1416
00:50:45,589 --> 00:50:44,079
cities right

1417
00:50:46,950 --> 00:50:45,599
maybe they haven't looked at the details

1418
00:50:49,030 --> 00:50:46,960
of what they signed it i have no idea

1419
00:50:50,950 --> 00:50:49,040
but that's if you read the actual

1420
00:50:52,390 --> 00:50:50,960
headline report of c 40 cities that's

1421
00:50:53,750 --> 00:50:52,400
what you'll find

1422
00:50:55,030 --> 00:50:53,760
what's in there

1423
00:50:57,510 --> 00:50:55,040
their program

1424
00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:57,520
now the e-diet is connected to this but

1425
00:51:02,309 --> 00:50:59,839
you also find c-46 is an extremely

1426
00:51:03,829 --> 00:51:02,319
interesting overarching platform which

1427
00:51:05,349 --> 00:51:03,839
is one of the most interesting ones to

1428
00:51:07,030 --> 00:51:05,359
look at because this is the one where

1429
00:51:08,470 --> 00:51:07,040
you find most of the players that you'll

1430
00:51:10,230 --> 00:51:08,480
find in all the other

1431
00:51:11,990 --> 00:51:10,240
organizations it's a kind of hydra you

1432
00:51:13,430 --> 00:51:12,000
see it's the same players with different

1433
00:51:14,790 --> 00:51:13,440
front organizations but there's one

1434
00:51:16,069 --> 00:51:14,800
where you see most of them coming

1435
00:51:17,589 --> 00:51:16,079
together and it's called the global

1436
00:51:21,270 --> 00:51:17,599
commons alliance

1437
00:51:23,190 --> 00:51:21,280
subtitle

1438
00:51:25,589 --> 00:51:23,200
a plan for the planet now it's the

1439
00:51:27,990 --> 00:51:25,599
technocratic view we have a plan for the

1440
00:51:31,030 --> 00:51:28,000
planet and within the alliance you have

1441
00:51:32,549 --> 00:51:31,040
c40 cities you have the eat foundation

1442
00:51:33,750 --> 00:51:32,559
you have the rockefeller foundation the

1443
00:51:35,589 --> 00:51:33,760
world business council sustainable

1444
00:51:37,109 --> 00:51:35,599
development the world economic forum

1445
00:51:39,990 --> 00:51:37,119
united nations the world resources

1446
00:51:43,430 --> 00:51:40,000
institute and worldwide left funds

1447
00:51:45,829 --> 00:51:43,440
all kinds of public private partnerships

1448
00:51:47,430 --> 00:51:45,839
like the capitals coalition and many

1449
00:51:50,710 --> 00:51:47,440
others where you have huge corporations

1450
00:51:52,870 --> 00:51:50,720
that are also involved so it's a massive

1451
00:51:55,510 --> 00:51:52,880
a really massive alliance with very

1452
00:51:56,710 --> 00:51:55,520
powerful players and

1453
00:51:58,950 --> 00:51:56,720
it's easy to look at this as a

1454
00:52:00,309 --> 00:51:58,960
conspiracy theory right but this but

1455
00:52:02,150 --> 00:52:00,319
this is just

1456
00:52:04,309 --> 00:52:02,160
it's not that surprising these are

1457
00:52:05,829 --> 00:52:04,319
powerful people that see opportunities

1458
00:52:07,589 --> 00:52:05,839
and start to work together around

1459
00:52:09,109 --> 00:52:07,599
certain agendas

1460
00:52:10,950 --> 00:52:09,119
in their common interest even if they

1461
00:52:13,030 --> 00:52:10,960
come from different places sometimes

1462
00:52:14,549 --> 00:52:13,040
they find a common interest

1463
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:14,559
the club of rome is there by the way as

1464
00:52:17,750 --> 00:52:16,160
well so you have that technocratic

1465
00:52:19,349 --> 00:52:17,760
utopian view almost that is also

1466
00:52:22,870 --> 00:52:19,359
infiltrating it

1467
00:52:28,309 --> 00:52:25,670
yes it really is and the c40 cities are

1468
00:52:29,829 --> 00:52:28,319
so interesting to me just because this

1469
00:52:32,950 --> 00:52:29,839
shows how

1470
00:52:35,030 --> 00:52:32,960
you get from the think tank to actual

1471
00:52:37,270 --> 00:52:35,040
policy makers because there's so much

1472
00:52:39,670 --> 00:52:37,280
money involved here that you can say hey

1473
00:52:41,910 --> 00:52:39,680
if you sign off on

1474
00:52:43,750 --> 00:52:41,920
this initiative we can put a lot of

1475
00:52:45,430 --> 00:52:43,760
money behind you and a lot of media

1476
00:52:46,710 --> 00:52:45,440
behind you and we can put you into a

1477
00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:46,720
position

1478
00:52:51,030 --> 00:52:49,040
and you know in the last couple years we

1479
00:52:53,270 --> 00:52:51,040
saw people

1480
00:52:55,670 --> 00:52:53,280
in positions of power that were also

1481
00:52:57,349 --> 00:52:55,680
lockstep with just these big decrees

1482
00:52:59,430 --> 00:52:57,359
that came down from international

1483
00:53:01,349 --> 00:52:59,440
organizations and

1484
00:53:03,829 --> 00:53:01,359
that's just really concerning to me i do

1485
00:53:06,630 --> 00:53:03,839
think you are right they will ultimately

1486
00:53:09,589 --> 00:53:06,640
fail because these plans are

1487
00:53:11,670 --> 00:53:09,599
really ambitious and quite crazy but

1488
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:11,680
they will do a lot of harm

1489
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:13,040
in the meantime

1490
00:53:17,349 --> 00:53:15,040
it's just wild that they'd even attempt

1491
00:53:18,390 --> 00:53:17,359
this stuff and another one of the things

1492
00:53:20,790 --> 00:53:18,400
that

1493
00:53:24,069 --> 00:53:20,800
i saw from one of your slides

1494
00:53:27,109 --> 00:53:24,079
was a slide titled anchoring policy that

1495
00:53:29,349 --> 00:53:27,119
focused on the eat commissioner

1496
00:53:31,190 --> 00:53:29,359
francisco branca

1497
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,200
and he said that

1498
00:53:35,910 --> 00:53:33,680
the world health organization will make

1499
00:53:37,510 --> 00:53:35,920
the food policies that trickle down to

1500
00:53:39,349 --> 00:53:37,520
national policy

1501
00:53:41,270 --> 00:53:39,359
worldwide and

1502
00:53:43,829 --> 00:53:41,280
that really set off an alarm bell to me

1503
00:53:45,109 --> 00:53:43,839
because there was a really recent

1504
00:53:47,829 --> 00:53:45,119
campaign

1505
00:53:50,390 --> 00:53:47,839
to get all nations to sign

1506
00:53:52,309 --> 00:53:50,400
over their autonomy to the who

1507
00:53:55,270 --> 00:53:52,319
so that they could act faster in the

1508
00:53:57,270 --> 00:53:55,280
wake of a new pandemic i followed the

1509
00:53:59,670 --> 00:53:57,280
story for a little bit and kind of

1510
00:54:01,510 --> 00:53:59,680
fizzled out on it i believe that you

1511
00:54:03,510 --> 00:54:01,520
know they definitely came up short of

1512
00:54:05,349 --> 00:54:03,520
their goal but they were trying to

1513
00:54:07,430 --> 00:54:05,359
basically in advance of the next thing

1514
00:54:09,589 --> 00:54:07,440
be like just sign up here you know so

1515
00:54:11,510 --> 00:54:09,599
that we can make the decrees

1516
00:54:13,670 --> 00:54:11,520
and then you know we we can act a lot

1517
00:54:16,309 --> 00:54:13,680
faster in the wake of a new pandemic but

1518
00:54:18,150 --> 00:54:16,319
this also applies for him to say

1519
00:54:19,990 --> 00:54:18,160
that they're going to act through the

1520
00:54:23,270 --> 00:54:20,000
world health organization on these food

1521
00:54:25,109 --> 00:54:23,280
policies that says a lot doesn't it

1522
00:54:27,910 --> 00:54:25,119
well he was he's a world health

1523
00:54:30,230 --> 00:54:27,920
organization official to begin with and

1524
00:54:32,470 --> 00:54:30,240
it's under that function that he entered

1525
00:54:33,750 --> 00:54:32,480
the eid commission

1526
00:54:35,750 --> 00:54:33,760
so

1527
00:54:37,910 --> 00:54:35,760
look at it from the perspective of those

1528
00:54:40,390 --> 00:54:37,920
organizations those organizations have

1529
00:54:41,670 --> 00:54:40,400
global plans okay so they want global

1530
00:54:44,069 --> 00:54:41,680
interventions

1531
00:54:45,349 --> 00:54:44,079
it's a global scenario

1532
00:54:46,549 --> 00:54:45,359
because they're multinationals they

1533
00:54:48,789 --> 00:54:46,559
don't belong to a country you know

1534
00:54:50,549 --> 00:54:48,799
they're multinational companies

1535
00:54:51,750 --> 00:54:50,559
they look at the world as a global

1536
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:51,760
challenge

1537
00:54:56,150 --> 00:54:54,160
so if you want to do that

1538
00:54:57,510 --> 00:54:56,160
it's very difficult

1539
00:55:00,069 --> 00:54:57,520
and

1540
00:55:01,829 --> 00:55:00,079
inefficient to pass from

1541
00:55:03,670 --> 00:55:01,839
national legislation

1542
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,680
if you have to work your way

1543
00:55:07,510 --> 00:55:05,359
inside the politics of every single

1544
00:55:10,150 --> 00:55:07,520
country and do it bottom up from there

1545
00:55:11,750 --> 00:55:10,160
is going to be very very difficult

1546
00:55:14,630 --> 00:55:11,760
the more efficient way for them is to

1547
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:14,640
work on a transnational level

1548
00:55:18,230 --> 00:55:16,240
think of the paris agreement now the

1549
00:55:19,589 --> 00:55:18,240
paris agreement is a place where nations

1550
00:55:21,430 --> 00:55:19,599
come together to sign up to one

1551
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:21,440
manifesto and that has to be implemented

1552
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,920
globally

1553
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:25,599
there's a lot of

1554
00:55:31,190 --> 00:55:28,880
talk about an ipcc for food now to have

1555
00:55:32,710 --> 00:55:31,200
something similar to have a global

1556
00:55:34,870 --> 00:55:32,720
agreement on food

1557
00:55:36,230 --> 00:55:34,880
that can be implemented and countries

1558
00:55:38,309 --> 00:55:36,240
will have to adhere

1559
00:55:40,549 --> 00:55:38,319
once the manifesto is signed

1560
00:55:43,030 --> 00:55:40,559
so that shortcuts the whole

1561
00:55:46,069 --> 00:55:43,040
bottom-up procedure where you have

1562
00:55:47,670 --> 00:55:46,079
consultations and dialogues and you just

1563
00:55:48,470 --> 00:55:47,680
have some experts coming up with

1564
00:55:50,789 --> 00:55:48,480
something

1565
00:55:52,630 --> 00:55:50,799
you'll just overwhelm the officials

1566
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:52,640
during a couple of summits and then they

1567
00:55:55,510 --> 00:55:54,000
sign up to it and then the country has

1568
00:55:57,109 --> 00:55:55,520
to stick to it

1569
00:55:58,789 --> 00:55:57,119
so that's much more efficient and to do

1570
00:56:01,349 --> 00:55:58,799
so if you want to enter the game from

1571
00:56:02,710 --> 00:56:01,359
the transnational level well how can you

1572
00:56:03,829 --> 00:56:02,720
do it better than through the united

1573
00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:03,839
nations

1574
00:56:08,230 --> 00:56:06,160
so the world health organization looks

1575
00:56:09,510 --> 00:56:08,240
like the ideal platform to implement

1576
00:56:11,750 --> 00:56:09,520
health policies

1577
00:56:13,430 --> 00:56:11,760
in support of global agendas

1578
00:56:15,750 --> 00:56:13,440
and on itself that could be a good thing

1579
00:56:17,589 --> 00:56:15,760
for some things need coordination but

1580
00:56:20,309 --> 00:56:17,599
there's a difference between

1581
00:56:21,109 --> 00:56:20,319
good intention coordination to optimize

1582
00:56:22,470 --> 00:56:21,119
and

1583
00:56:23,910 --> 00:56:22,480
smoothen out

1584
00:56:25,990 --> 00:56:23,920
the process and make it more more

1585
00:56:26,870 --> 00:56:26,000
efficient and effective

1586
00:56:29,750 --> 00:56:26,880
and

1587
00:56:32,470 --> 00:56:29,760
using it as a matter of control over

1588
00:56:34,549 --> 00:56:32,480
the reality so that you can push through

1589
00:56:36,870 --> 00:56:34,559
certain ideas

1590
00:56:38,789 --> 00:56:36,880
i'm not opposed to

1591
00:56:40,710 --> 00:56:38,799
united nation

1592
00:56:42,870 --> 00:56:40,720
initiatives and frameworks

1593
00:56:45,589 --> 00:56:42,880
if they do what they're supposed to do

1594
00:56:48,150 --> 00:56:45,599
you know coordinate and create dialogue

1595
00:56:49,670 --> 00:56:48,160
and so forth but from the moment they

1596
00:56:51,589 --> 00:56:49,680
would become

1597
00:56:52,950 --> 00:56:51,599
a controlling body

1598
00:56:55,750 --> 00:56:52,960
over ruling

1599
00:56:57,470 --> 00:56:55,760
national decisions then we have an issue

1600
00:57:00,309 --> 00:56:57,480
right right which is just why i think

1601
00:57:02,549 --> 00:57:00,319
decentralization is so important because

1602
00:57:05,829 --> 00:57:02,559
i can see the benefits as you laid out

1603
00:57:08,630 --> 00:57:05,839
to some coordination and big

1604
00:57:09,750 --> 00:57:08,640
organizations to work on big problems

1605
00:57:12,309 --> 00:57:09,760
but

1606
00:57:14,549 --> 00:57:12,319
that opens up the door to serious

1607
00:57:16,309 --> 00:57:14,559
corruption and once it's there it's

1608
00:57:18,390 --> 00:57:16,319
really hard to get out and they have so

1609
00:57:21,109 --> 00:57:18,400
much power and so much reach so it's

1610
00:57:24,150 --> 00:57:21,119
just like i say decentralize all the

1611
00:57:26,150 --> 00:57:24,160
things and deal with the consequences

1612
00:57:28,950 --> 00:57:26,160
and so before we go what are your

1613
00:57:30,069 --> 00:57:28,960
thoughts on how we should build a better

1614
00:57:32,150 --> 00:57:30,079
system

1615
00:57:33,990 --> 00:57:32,160
for animal foods than what we have with

1616
00:57:35,750 --> 00:57:34,000
factory farming as well as what they're

1617
00:57:38,069 --> 00:57:35,760
trying to sell us with the lab-grown

1618
00:57:40,710 --> 00:57:38,079
stuff just to tie this all together

1619
00:57:43,270 --> 00:57:40,720
if you were in charge of food policy for

1620
00:57:44,150 --> 00:57:43,280
a country how would you approach that

1621
00:57:46,309 --> 00:57:44,160
well

1622
00:57:49,589 --> 00:57:46,319
there are things that are not okay

1623
00:57:51,349 --> 00:57:49,599
with animal production at the level of

1624
00:57:53,109 --> 00:57:51,359
things like well you could say soil for

1625
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:53,119
instance soil is an issue

1626
00:57:56,950 --> 00:57:54,400
soil is

1627
00:57:58,789 --> 00:57:56,960
extremely important we underestimate the

1628
00:58:01,190 --> 00:57:58,799
value of soil and there are certain ways

1629
00:58:03,589 --> 00:58:01,200
of doing agriculture not only animal

1630
00:58:05,829 --> 00:58:03,599
agriculture all agriculture where soils

1631
00:58:07,990 --> 00:58:05,839
get depleted we supplement them with

1632
00:58:09,510 --> 00:58:08,000
fertilizers and in the end it's not a

1633
00:58:11,510 --> 00:58:09,520
sustainable practice

1634
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:11,520
soil should be the focus of about

1635
00:58:15,430 --> 00:58:13,040
everything we do

1636
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:15,440
and there are many ways that we

1637
00:58:21,190 --> 00:58:17,280
can achieve that

1638
00:58:23,589 --> 00:58:21,200
they have to do with creating diversity

1639
00:58:24,950 --> 00:58:23,599
so you will have different plants on the

1640
00:58:27,109 --> 00:58:24,960
surface

1641
00:58:29,510 --> 00:58:27,119
this diversity creates resilience

1642
00:58:30,789 --> 00:58:29,520
it has to do if you use animals it has

1643
00:58:33,190 --> 00:58:30,799
to do with the way you manage the

1644
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:33,200
animals you can steer their grazing

1645
00:58:36,870 --> 00:58:35,040
behavior so they don't over graze and

1646
00:58:39,030 --> 00:58:36,880
destroy the soil but they actually

1647
00:58:40,870 --> 00:58:39,040
promote soil health

1648
00:58:43,190 --> 00:58:40,880
sequester carbon

1649
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:43,200
so being part of the climate solution

1650
00:58:45,910 --> 00:58:44,319
they

1651
00:58:48,230 --> 00:58:45,920
have also in those scenarios usually

1652
00:58:50,710 --> 00:58:48,240
also better welfare

1653
00:58:52,390 --> 00:58:50,720
and steer them away from food feed

1654
00:58:54,150 --> 00:58:52,400
competition just don't give them grains

1655
00:58:55,829 --> 00:58:54,160
even though the grains they often get

1656
00:58:57,109 --> 00:58:55,839
sometimes it's also exaggerated because

1657
00:58:58,470 --> 00:58:57,119
a lot of the grains they get are

1658
00:59:00,470 --> 00:58:58,480
actually grains are not suitable for

1659
00:59:03,190 --> 00:59:00,480
humans in the first place but anyway

1660
00:59:05,109 --> 00:59:03,200
there's still work to be done on getting

1661
00:59:07,270 --> 00:59:05,119
ruminants

1662
00:59:09,109 --> 00:59:07,280
maximally on the nutrition that is not

1663
00:59:10,870 --> 00:59:09,119
suitable for humans that's their

1664
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,880
strength in the end that's why they're

1665
00:59:14,950 --> 00:59:12,319
so valuable

1666
00:59:16,309 --> 00:59:14,960
cows are able to

1667
00:59:19,109 --> 00:59:16,319
yield

1668
00:59:21,589 --> 00:59:19,119
very nutritious foods from an input that

1669
00:59:23,829 --> 00:59:21,599
is essentially grass and sunlight and

1670
00:59:26,150 --> 00:59:23,839
rain water or rainfall

1671
00:59:28,150 --> 00:59:26,160
however if you start feeding them

1672
00:59:29,990 --> 00:59:28,160
essentially with you know fortified

1673
00:59:33,190 --> 00:59:30,000
feeds and those feeds come from

1674
00:59:34,950 --> 00:59:33,200
monocultures and if you

1675
00:59:37,510 --> 00:59:34,960
extract water to do so instead of

1676
00:59:39,109 --> 00:59:37,520
depending on grasslands with rainfall

1677
00:59:40,950 --> 00:59:39,119
if you let them over graze they can be

1678
00:59:43,589 --> 00:59:40,960
very destructive as well

1679
00:59:45,510 --> 00:59:43,599
so there's really a lot of potential to

1680
00:59:48,069 --> 00:59:45,520
improve that globally at the global

1681
00:59:50,309 --> 00:59:48,079
scale so you start fixing degraded soils

1682
00:59:52,390 --> 00:59:50,319
you start to sequester carbon you create

1683
00:59:54,789 --> 00:59:52,400
diversity in your landscape

1684
00:59:56,630 --> 00:59:54,799
you boost biodiversity also from insects

1685
00:59:58,710 --> 00:59:56,640
and birds and everything that comes with

1686
01:00:00,390 --> 00:59:58,720
it all of that is feasible

1687
01:00:01,589 --> 01:00:00,400
but it's just not being talked about

1688
01:00:04,069 --> 01:00:01,599
very much

1689
01:00:06,069 --> 01:00:04,079
instead we see the simplistic

1690
01:00:08,069 --> 01:00:06,079
scenarios that say well let's just erase

1691
01:00:09,430 --> 01:00:08,079
livestock and come up with

1692
01:00:12,230 --> 01:00:09,440
plant burgers

1693
01:00:15,190 --> 01:00:12,240
let's not forget that those plants

1694
01:00:19,190 --> 01:00:15,200
burgers those vegan burgers are based on

1695
01:00:20,549 --> 01:00:19,200
things like soy protein or pea protein

1696
01:00:22,470 --> 01:00:20,559
where will those come from well they

1697
01:00:23,829 --> 01:00:22,480
will come from especially if they have

1698
01:00:25,910 --> 01:00:23,839
to produce at such a high scale they

1699
01:00:27,990 --> 01:00:25,920
will come from monocultures

1700
01:00:30,789 --> 01:00:28,000
it will be based on fertilizers that

1701
01:00:32,950 --> 01:00:30,799
come from fossil fuels they will destroy

1702
01:00:34,549 --> 01:00:32,960
biodiversity in the process

1703
01:00:36,069 --> 01:00:34,559
and so on and so on not to mention even

1704
01:00:37,430 --> 01:00:36,079
public health because

1705
01:00:40,309 --> 01:00:37,440
what are we feeding people here we're

1706
01:00:41,750 --> 01:00:40,319
feeding them ultra processed foods

1707
01:00:43,589 --> 01:00:41,760
and then you have the monogastric

1708
01:00:45,430 --> 01:00:43,599
animals like the

1709
01:00:47,829 --> 01:00:45,440
pigs and the chickens

1710
01:00:49,589 --> 01:00:47,839
those ones are

1711
01:00:51,510 --> 01:00:49,599
so where rascals are good of in

1712
01:00:53,030 --> 01:00:51,520
converting grass those monogastrics are

1713
01:00:54,789 --> 01:00:53,040
extremely good in

1714
01:00:57,030 --> 01:00:54,799
valorizing

1715
01:00:59,109 --> 01:00:57,040
side streams of

1716
01:01:01,190 --> 01:00:59,119
other human activities even if you

1717
01:01:03,990 --> 01:01:01,200
create crops a lot of the crop

1718
01:01:05,349 --> 01:01:04,000
production is not for consumption

1719
01:01:07,270 --> 01:01:05,359
you know there are lots of parts of

1720
01:01:08,870 --> 01:01:07,280
crops that we cannot eat

1721
01:01:10,710 --> 01:01:08,880
you can feed those the monogastrics and

1722
01:01:12,630 --> 01:01:10,720
they can eat those and turn them into

1723
01:01:14,309 --> 01:01:12,640
something valuable so

1724
01:01:16,549 --> 01:01:14,319
there's an argument for more cyclic

1725
01:01:18,630 --> 01:01:16,559
systems making it more circular

1726
01:01:20,230 --> 01:01:18,640
so that we are not depleting things

1727
01:01:21,510 --> 01:01:20,240
we're not having a linear approach we

1728
01:01:24,710 --> 01:01:21,520
have a more

1729
01:01:26,069 --> 01:01:24,720
a better integration with how ecosystems

1730
01:01:26,950 --> 01:01:26,079
work

1731
01:01:29,349 --> 01:01:26,960
and then

1732
01:01:30,710 --> 01:01:29,359
the model here is to look also at what

1733
01:01:32,950 --> 01:01:30,720
wildlife does

1734
01:01:34,470 --> 01:01:32,960
like the bisons for instance they are a

1735
01:01:35,829 --> 01:01:34,480
very good model

1736
01:01:38,710 --> 01:01:35,839
for cattle

1737
01:01:41,670 --> 01:01:38,720
industry the way bisons create topsoil

1738
01:01:43,430 --> 01:01:41,680
and the way they graze

1739
01:01:45,430 --> 01:01:43,440
we can learn from that

1740
01:01:47,109 --> 01:01:45,440
and use those techniques

1741
01:01:50,150 --> 01:01:47,119
which are perfectly in balance with

1742
01:01:52,309 --> 01:01:50,160
nature also for for the meat industry

1743
01:01:54,150 --> 01:01:52,319
grasslands are amazing grasslands have

1744
01:01:56,630 --> 01:01:54,160
been

1745
01:01:58,150 --> 01:01:56,640
evolving over tens of millions of years

1746
01:01:59,109 --> 01:01:58,160
what is it 40 million years or something

1747
01:02:01,430 --> 01:01:59,119
like that

1748
01:02:02,789 --> 01:02:01,440
and it's a co-evolution of

1749
01:02:05,029 --> 01:02:02,799
grass

1750
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:05,039
animals predators

1751
01:02:08,549 --> 01:02:06,720
of those animals

1752
01:02:09,990 --> 01:02:08,559
not to mention the microbes in the soil

1753
01:02:11,750 --> 01:02:10,000
and all the other organisms that are

1754
01:02:13,829 --> 01:02:11,760
involved the beetles and the worms and

1755
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:13,839
all of that it's a fantastic complicated

1756
01:02:18,870 --> 01:02:17,280
but very elegant system of co-evolution

1757
01:02:20,789 --> 01:02:18,880
and you can

1758
01:02:22,150 --> 01:02:20,799
partially use it to your advantage where

1759
01:02:26,470 --> 01:02:22,160
you

1760
01:02:28,309 --> 01:02:26,480
the human is the predator in the

1761
01:02:31,190 --> 01:02:28,319
scenario but does so in you know

1762
01:02:32,789 --> 01:02:31,200
accordance with the entire ecosystem by

1763
01:02:35,430 --> 01:02:32,799
respecting a couple of ecological

1764
01:02:37,270 --> 01:02:35,440
principles and it doesn't necessarily

1765
01:02:39,270 --> 01:02:37,280
always mean that you have to reduce

1766
01:02:41,829 --> 01:02:39,280
production it becomes less efficient a

1767
01:02:44,150 --> 01:02:41,839
lot of those techniques especially

1768
01:02:46,230 --> 01:02:44,160
like rotational grazing actually can

1769
01:02:49,829 --> 01:02:46,240
come with productivity increase if you

1770
01:02:54,789 --> 01:02:52,150
all great points i mean

1771
01:02:57,510 --> 01:02:54,799
a lot of that breakdown echoes

1772
01:03:00,789 --> 01:02:57,520
what some regenerative sustainable

1773
01:03:02,390 --> 01:03:00,799
ranchers i've had here have articulated

1774
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:02,400
and it seems like

1775
01:03:05,910 --> 01:03:03,920
this is the way

1776
01:03:08,069 --> 01:03:05,920
and man i just thought this was really

1777
01:03:10,230 --> 01:03:08,079
great you're so knowledgeable and you're

1778
01:03:12,630 --> 01:03:10,240
quite brave for putting yourself out

1779
01:03:15,190 --> 01:03:12,640
there in an academic culture that is not

1780
01:03:17,349 --> 01:03:15,200
friendly to the perspectives that you're

1781
01:03:20,390 --> 01:03:17,359
offering but it is very much appreciated

1782
01:03:21,910 --> 01:03:20,400
here do you have any links or follow-up

1783
01:03:24,390 --> 01:03:21,920
information you'd like to give the

1784
01:03:26,390 --> 01:03:24,400
listeners before we call it in

1785
01:03:28,309 --> 01:03:26,400
well i can offer two things i have my

1786
01:03:29,510 --> 01:03:28,319
twitter account

1787
01:03:34,150 --> 01:03:29,520
which is

1788
01:03:35,510 --> 01:03:34,160
f l e r o y 1974

1789
01:03:37,510 --> 01:03:35,520
that's one

1790
01:03:39,829 --> 01:03:37,520
i'm rather active on twitter so people

1791
01:03:42,549 --> 01:03:39,839
can find lots of my thoughts and

1792
01:03:45,670 --> 01:03:42,559
a lot of information on twitter

1793
01:03:46,630 --> 01:03:45,680
and then i have created a website

1794
01:03:48,309 --> 01:03:46,640
which is

1795
01:03:49,349 --> 01:03:48,319
scientific the language is quite

1796
01:03:52,230 --> 01:03:49,359
technical

1797
01:03:53,910 --> 01:03:52,240
but it gives you an overview of

1798
01:03:55,990 --> 01:03:53,920
the nutritional

1799
01:03:57,510 --> 01:03:56,000
environmental and ethical debates around

1800
01:04:00,069 --> 01:03:57,520
animal source foods

1801
01:04:02,069 --> 01:04:00,079
and the website is a blogspot

1802
01:04:06,870 --> 01:04:02,079
so it's in the google blogspot family

1803
01:04:10,069 --> 01:04:06,880
and it's called cliff2020 so a l e p h

1804
01:04:11,750 --> 01:04:10,079
20 20. if you google that you probably

1805
01:04:13,109 --> 01:04:11,760
find it

1806
01:04:14,710 --> 01:04:13,119
there's really a lot of information

1807
01:04:16,870 --> 01:04:14,720
there also you'll find the hyperlinks to

1808
01:04:19,510 --> 01:04:16,880
studies so if somebody's interested

1809
01:04:21,349 --> 01:04:19,520
to go for a deep dive into the science i

1810
01:04:23,510 --> 01:04:21,359
think it's a good place to start

1811
01:04:25,430 --> 01:04:23,520
even you know if i say so motivated

1812
01:04:27,589 --> 01:04:25,440
myself

1813
01:04:29,990 --> 01:04:27,599
right on well i will make sure they have

1814
01:04:31,910 --> 01:04:30,000
links handy along with this but i can't

1815
01:04:34,150 --> 01:04:31,920
thank you enough man this has been one

1816
01:04:35,829 --> 01:04:34,160
of my favorite food interviews ever it's

1817
01:04:37,750 --> 01:04:35,839
been a real pleasure keep fighting the

1818
01:04:39,589 --> 01:04:37,760
good fight and take care out there

1819
01:04:43,670 --> 01:04:39,599
thank you so much and it was nice having

1820
01:04:47,750 --> 01:04:44,950
100

1821
01:04:50,870 --> 01:04:47,760
yes people i am so happy with this one

1822
01:04:53,349 --> 01:04:50,880
the good doctor is so knowledgeable

1823
01:04:55,829 --> 01:04:53,359
he's professional and accredited but not

1824
01:04:57,750 --> 01:04:55,839
compromised by the very agendas he

1825
01:04:59,349 --> 01:04:57,760
criticizes

1826
01:05:00,789 --> 01:04:59,359
and he's willing to come on our weird

1827
01:05:02,789 --> 01:05:00,799
stuff show and have a serious

1828
01:05:05,510 --> 01:05:02,799
conversation about it

1829
01:05:07,109 --> 01:05:05,520
these professional academic types have

1830
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:07,119
to put a lot of trust in me that i'm

1831
01:05:11,349 --> 01:05:09,119
going to do them justice and kudos to

1832
01:05:13,270 --> 01:05:11,359
him for taking the chance

1833
01:05:15,670 --> 01:05:13,280
i would imagine there's a few listeners

1834
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:15,680
rolling their eyes at another food show

1835
01:05:19,270 --> 01:05:17,280
but this is the biggest move the

1836
01:05:22,470 --> 01:05:19,280
capstone cabal is making right now and i

1837
01:05:24,870 --> 01:05:22,480
want to cover it in every way we can and

1838
01:05:26,470 --> 01:05:24,880
just like covet yes the titles might

1839
01:05:28,230 --> 01:05:26,480
seem similar

1840
01:05:30,630 --> 01:05:28,240
but i try to make sure that everyone i

1841
01:05:32,630 --> 01:05:30,640
bring on for a certain topic at least

1842
01:05:35,029 --> 01:05:32,640
brings something different to the table

1843
01:05:38,230 --> 01:05:35,039
or has a different angle on it

1844
01:05:40,950 --> 01:05:38,240
in the case of the food war of 2022 we

1845
01:05:43,270 --> 01:05:40,960
have people from a prepper perspective a

1846
01:05:45,349 --> 01:05:43,280
rancher's perspective

1847
01:05:46,549 --> 01:05:45,359
and now we have a food scientist who can

1848
01:05:48,870 --> 01:05:46,559
lay out the history of these

1849
01:05:51,190 --> 01:05:48,880
organizations he can talk about the way

1850
01:05:53,510 --> 01:05:51,200
academia is getting on board

1851
01:05:55,910 --> 01:05:53,520
and you can talk about the cultural and

1852
01:05:58,789 --> 01:05:55,920
communal relevance of traditional foods

1853
01:06:01,190 --> 01:05:58,799
that is being lost in this campaign

1854
01:06:03,270 --> 01:06:01,200
these are multifaceted issues and i like

1855
01:06:05,829 --> 01:06:03,280
to have guests who can come at them from

1856
01:06:08,069 --> 01:06:05,839
several different perspectives

1857
01:06:10,710 --> 01:06:08,079
and this is probably my favorite

1858
01:06:12,309 --> 01:06:10,720
most well-rounded food agenda interview

1859
01:06:14,549 --> 01:06:12,319
that i've done

1860
01:06:17,190 --> 01:06:14,559
all glory goes to the guests of course

1861
01:06:19,270 --> 01:06:17,200
because these things totally rely on

1862
01:06:21,750 --> 01:06:19,280
having a good dance partner

1863
01:06:24,150 --> 01:06:21,760
but i'm just so jazzed up about putting

1864
01:06:24,870 --> 01:06:24,160
this one out that's not always the case

1865
01:06:28,309 --> 01:06:24,880
but

1866
01:06:30,150 --> 01:06:28,319
when i feel like i got a home run

1867
01:06:32,309 --> 01:06:30,160
it's a great feeling

1868
01:06:33,589 --> 01:06:32,319
but if you enjoyed this i'd suggest

1869
01:06:35,829 --> 01:06:33,599
following up with some of his

1870
01:06:37,990 --> 01:06:35,839
presentations that are accompanied by

1871
01:06:39,190 --> 01:06:38,000
slides it is nice to have that extra

1872
01:06:40,789 --> 01:06:39,200
element

1873
01:06:43,349 --> 01:06:40,799
in one of them he actually starts it

1874
01:06:45,430 --> 01:06:43,359
with a quote from george orwell from

1875
01:06:47,829 --> 01:06:45,440
his journalistic reporting in the book

1876
01:06:50,630 --> 01:06:47,839
the road to wigan pier

1877
01:06:53,109 --> 01:06:50,640
and george orwell says

1878
01:06:55,270 --> 01:06:53,119
i think it could be plausibly argued

1879
01:06:58,630 --> 01:06:55,280
that changes of diet are more important

1880
01:07:01,510 --> 01:06:58,640
than changes of dynasty or even religion

1881
01:07:04,549 --> 01:07:01,520
and it is true and i like how broad a

1882
01:07:07,589 --> 01:07:04,559
look at food we had in this one

1883
01:07:10,069 --> 01:07:07,599
i mentioned the show alone at one point

1884
01:07:11,910 --> 01:07:10,079
and it's true that anyone who watches it

1885
01:07:14,150 --> 01:07:11,920
is confronted with the very stark

1886
01:07:16,630 --> 01:07:14,160
reality that without animal protein and

1887
01:07:18,870 --> 01:07:16,640
fat you're not gonna make it

1888
01:07:21,270 --> 01:07:18,880
it's also very insightful to see the

1889
01:07:23,349 --> 01:07:21,280
preparation of animals with very basic

1890
01:07:25,190 --> 01:07:23,359
tools and you also get a lot of that

1891
01:07:26,829 --> 01:07:25,200
gratitude and some of the spiritual

1892
01:07:29,990 --> 01:07:26,839
aspects of the whole

1893
01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:30,000
process many people thank the land or

1894
01:07:33,910 --> 01:07:32,640
the lake and i'm just a big fan of that

1895
01:07:35,750 --> 01:07:33,920
show

1896
01:07:39,430 --> 01:07:35,760
but there are people who try to forage

1897
01:07:41,190 --> 01:07:39,440
their way to success and it never works

1898
01:07:43,109 --> 01:07:41,200
then there are people who accumulate too

1899
01:07:45,670 --> 01:07:43,119
much meat and have a new problem of

1900
01:07:47,190 --> 01:07:45,680
protecting it from predators

1901
01:07:49,029 --> 01:07:47,200
as well as preserving it from the

1902
01:07:50,950 --> 01:07:49,039
elements and then you see people eat

1903
01:07:53,990 --> 01:07:50,960
organs raw

1904
01:07:57,109 --> 01:07:54,000
it's wild it's really impressive stuff

1905
01:07:59,029 --> 01:07:57,119
and i think dr frederick lara

1906
01:08:00,549 --> 01:07:59,039
sold out some really insightful stuff in

1907
01:08:03,750 --> 01:08:00,559
the second hour when we talked about

1908
01:08:05,510 --> 01:08:03,760
maslow's hierarchy of needs and how

1909
01:08:07,670 --> 01:08:05,520
societies mature

1910
01:08:08,549 --> 01:08:07,680
and what that does to our thoughts about

1911
01:08:10,870 --> 01:08:08,559
food

1912
01:08:13,670 --> 01:08:10,880
you get away from that primal type of

1913
01:08:15,750 --> 01:08:13,680
living and suddenly diet can become a

1914
01:08:18,309 --> 01:08:15,760
virtue signal it's not about nutrition

1915
01:08:20,390 --> 01:08:18,319
it's about self-sacrifice

1916
01:08:22,709 --> 01:08:20,400
and these are the things that the think

1917
01:08:25,510 --> 01:08:22,719
tanks and food tech inc are playing on

1918
01:08:27,749 --> 01:08:25,520
right now we've certainly had guests in

1919
01:08:29,510 --> 01:08:27,759
the past who come from that perspective

1920
01:08:31,749 --> 01:08:29,520
that the elite want us to engage in

1921
01:08:34,309 --> 01:08:31,759
satanic practices and they encourage us

1922
01:08:37,990 --> 01:08:34,319
to eat red meat as a result

1923
01:08:40,470 --> 01:08:38,000
they normalize satanic practices and

1924
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:40,480
death with this sort of thing

1925
01:08:44,309 --> 01:08:43,120
so they say but i totally disagree and

1926
01:08:45,430 --> 01:08:44,319
right now

1927
01:08:47,590 --> 01:08:45,440
when this is one of the key

1928
01:08:49,910 --> 01:08:47,600
battlegrounds i'm gonna struggle to have

1929
01:08:52,309 --> 01:08:49,920
those types of guests on

1930
01:08:53,910 --> 01:08:52,319
or to let that sort of argument take up

1931
01:08:56,149 --> 01:08:53,920
any of our time because i think they

1932
01:08:58,229 --> 01:08:56,159
have it totally backwards

1933
01:09:01,030 --> 01:08:58,239
my perspective is that encouraging

1934
01:09:03,189 --> 01:09:01,040
people to go meatless is encouraging a

1935
01:09:05,870 --> 01:09:03,199
poverty diet encouraging a diet that

1936
01:09:07,590 --> 01:09:05,880
makes us weaker and has us functioning

1937
01:09:09,829 --> 01:09:07,600
sub-optimally

1938
01:09:11,669 --> 01:09:09,839
again diet isn't a one-size-fits-all

1939
01:09:14,709 --> 01:09:11,679
thing and if you really put the work and

1940
01:09:16,950 --> 01:09:14,719
dedication in sure a vegan lifestyle can

1941
01:09:20,229 --> 01:09:16,960
work but examples of it that you can

1942
01:09:22,070 --> 01:09:20,239
really cite are few and far between but

1943
01:09:24,550 --> 01:09:22,080
from the elite perspective i would say

1944
01:09:26,870 --> 01:09:24,560
the thinking is the same as fuel and

1945
01:09:29,590 --> 01:09:26,880
medicine hell some of the people are the

1946
01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:29,600
same but fuel is the best analogy to use

1947
01:09:34,550 --> 01:09:31,600
because it's not such a trigger issue as

1948
01:09:36,709 --> 01:09:34,560
the medical stuff is these days but you

1949
01:09:40,870 --> 01:09:36,719
have several available fuels you have

1950
01:09:43,030 --> 01:09:40,880
several transportation travel options

1951
01:09:45,349 --> 01:09:43,040
paris in new york city have electric

1952
01:09:47,669 --> 01:09:45,359
taxis over a hundred years ago the train

1953
01:09:50,229 --> 01:09:47,679
system is cooking at full steam

1954
01:09:52,309 --> 01:09:50,239
and our options were calculatedly

1955
01:09:54,550 --> 01:09:52,319
whittled away to the sources that they

1956
01:09:57,510 --> 01:09:54,560
had the most control over oil is not a

1957
01:09:59,189 --> 01:09:57,520
better fuel than alcohol or hemp

1958
01:10:01,189 --> 01:09:59,199
and if you really want to get crazy the

1959
01:10:04,310 --> 01:10:01,199
stanley meyer engine

1960
01:10:06,870 --> 01:10:04,320
showed that even water can power a car

1961
01:10:08,870 --> 01:10:06,880
but oil is the most difficult for you or

1962
01:10:10,310 --> 01:10:08,880
i to produce so that's what it's going

1963
01:10:12,790 --> 01:10:10,320
to be

1964
01:10:14,709 --> 01:10:12,800
so we get prohibition alcohol is removed

1965
01:10:15,990 --> 01:10:14,719
from society we're told it's about one

1966
01:10:17,830 --> 01:10:16,000
thing but it's really about another

1967
01:10:20,070 --> 01:10:17,840
thing entirely

1968
01:10:21,990 --> 01:10:20,080
hemp is also removed again we're told

1969
01:10:23,910 --> 01:10:22,000
it's about consumption and this big

1970
01:10:25,350 --> 01:10:23,920
scary drug that is making people act

1971
01:10:28,149 --> 01:10:25,360
insane

1972
01:10:30,550 --> 01:10:28,159
and we lump hemp in for the benefit of

1973
01:10:33,590 --> 01:10:30,560
the textile billionaires and the oil men

1974
01:10:35,910 --> 01:10:33,600
the commodity cabal we could say

1975
01:10:37,830 --> 01:10:35,920
this feels like a very similar fight

1976
01:10:39,830 --> 01:10:37,840
they're whittling down food options to

1977
01:10:42,070 --> 01:10:39,840
the things we can't produce ourselves

1978
01:10:43,830 --> 01:10:42,080
highly technical franken foods and the

1979
01:10:45,350 --> 01:10:43,840
people making these foods are heavily

1980
01:10:47,590 --> 01:10:45,360
involved in the influencing of the

1981
01:10:49,830 --> 01:10:47,600
policies that justify them getting full

1982
01:10:52,149 --> 01:10:49,840
control of the food market

1983
01:10:54,390 --> 01:10:52,159
we have to wise up and keep this from

1984
01:10:56,310 --> 01:10:54,400
happening to yet another sector of the

1985
01:10:58,310 --> 01:10:56,320
societal pie

1986
01:11:00,470 --> 01:10:58,320
we didn't do a very good job in the past

1987
01:11:02,390 --> 01:11:00,480
but maybe with the value of hindsight

1988
01:11:05,110 --> 01:11:02,400
and the value of the interconnected

1989
01:11:08,070 --> 01:11:05,120
world we won't lose this one

1990
01:11:10,149 --> 01:11:08,080
again as dr larothe said

1991
01:11:12,790 --> 01:11:10,159
these people say in their documents

1992
01:11:14,870 --> 01:11:12,800
their absolute goal is to get to zero

1993
01:11:17,910 --> 01:11:14,880
meat and zero dairy but they'll settle

1994
01:11:19,750 --> 01:11:17,920
for gaining as much ground as they can

1995
01:11:21,590 --> 01:11:19,760
we shall see but if you liked the first

1996
01:11:25,270 --> 01:11:21,600
hour we really opened it up in the

1997
01:11:27,430 --> 01:11:25,280
second hour we talked about the plan

1998
01:11:29,510 --> 01:11:27,440
from the mouth of the ceo of the

1999
01:11:31,430 --> 01:11:29,520
impossible burger who straight up says

2000
01:11:34,310 --> 01:11:31,440
they want to send beef pork and then

2001
01:11:35,590 --> 01:11:34,320
chicken markets into a death spiral

2002
01:11:38,470 --> 01:11:35,600
does that sound like friendly

2003
01:11:40,470 --> 01:11:38,480
competition and just offering the people

2004
01:11:42,390 --> 01:11:40,480
another option

2005
01:11:44,630 --> 01:11:42,400
i don't think so

2006
01:11:46,950 --> 01:11:44,640
i also had to ask him the question of if

2007
01:11:48,709 --> 01:11:46,960
there is a depopulation element to this

2008
01:11:50,950 --> 01:11:48,719
larger plan

2009
01:11:53,189 --> 01:11:50,960
we talked about future strategies that

2010
01:11:54,870 --> 01:11:53,199
he expects to see roll out to achieve

2011
01:11:57,350 --> 01:11:54,880
their food goals

2012
01:12:00,229 --> 01:11:57,360
resetting food knowledge at the school

2013
01:12:02,550 --> 01:12:00,239
level and weaponizing kids

2014
01:12:04,550 --> 01:12:02,560
the attack on communal eating going

2015
01:12:06,070 --> 01:12:04,560
after school lunches and restaurant

2016
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:06,080
menus

2017
01:12:11,910 --> 01:12:08,560
we talked about the historic ritualistic

2018
01:12:13,590 --> 01:12:11,920
and cultural importance of animal foods

2019
01:12:15,830 --> 01:12:13,600
and i didn't mean to say i'm going to

2020
01:12:17,430 --> 01:12:15,840
kill and process all my own animals but

2021
01:12:20,310 --> 01:12:17,440
i think it's an important thing to

2022
01:12:22,149 --> 01:12:20,320
experience at least once in your life

2023
01:12:24,630 --> 01:12:22,159
i actually know a farmer in southern

2024
01:12:27,750 --> 01:12:24,640
california who's open to letting me kill

2025
01:12:29,669 --> 01:12:27,760
and prep my own chickens and lamb

2026
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:29,679
if i could just get sam tripoli to go up

2027
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:31,440
there with me we could make a behind the

2028
01:12:35,590 --> 01:12:33,760
scenes video about it i think it'd be

2029
01:12:37,510 --> 01:12:35,600
worth doing why don't you guys help me

2030
01:12:39,030 --> 01:12:37,520
lean on sam a little bit i'm gonna do it

2031
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,040
either way but i think it would be much

2032
01:12:43,350 --> 01:12:42,000
more fun to have a wingman

2033
01:12:45,669 --> 01:12:43,360
anyway we also talked about the

2034
01:12:47,990 --> 01:12:45,679
importance of organ meats to nutrition

2035
01:12:49,910 --> 01:12:48,000
and food traditions

2036
01:12:52,149 --> 01:12:49,920
one of my favorite parts inverting

2037
01:12:55,270 --> 01:12:52,159
maslow's hierarchy of needs and how it

2038
01:12:56,470 --> 01:12:55,280
relates to food insights into fermented

2039
01:12:59,430 --> 01:12:56,480
meats

2040
01:13:02,310 --> 01:12:59,440
and his advice for natural and low-tech

2041
01:13:05,750 --> 01:13:02,320
ways to keep meat preserved in a crisis

2042
01:13:08,870 --> 01:13:05,760
scenario god forbid

2043
01:13:10,790 --> 01:13:08,880
so so so many great insights i don't

2044
01:13:12,550 --> 01:13:10,800
mean to gatekeep you guys this is just

2045
01:13:14,790 --> 01:13:12,560
my job this is a business and if you

2046
01:13:17,270 --> 01:13:14,800
think it has value it must be funded

2047
01:13:18,550 --> 01:13:17,280
somehow and we're not doing sponsorships

2048
01:13:20,709 --> 01:13:18,560
or ads

2049
01:13:23,430 --> 01:13:20,719
so just like the pivot most ranchers are

2050
01:13:24,630 --> 01:13:23,440
making right now direct to consumer is

2051
01:13:26,550 --> 01:13:24,640
the way

2052
01:13:28,229 --> 01:13:26,560
if we're honest with ourselves many of

2053
01:13:30,630 --> 01:13:28,239
us spend eight dollars much more

2054
01:13:32,709 --> 01:13:30,640
frivolously in other areas of life but

2055
01:13:35,110 --> 01:13:32,719
sometimes people get hyper critical when

2056
01:13:37,430 --> 01:13:35,120
it comes to podcasting in a show that

2057
01:13:39,750 --> 01:13:37,440
they like but for some reason draw the

2058
01:13:41,830 --> 01:13:39,760
line in the sand at contributing to it i

2059
01:13:44,229 --> 01:13:41,840
get those messages all the time i just

2060
01:13:46,229 --> 01:13:44,239
don't pay for podcasts

2061
01:13:48,390 --> 01:13:46,239
we think nothing of it to pay a waiter

2062
01:13:50,870 --> 01:13:48,400
eight dollars to bring a sandwich from

2063
01:13:54,070 --> 01:13:50,880
the counter to the table

2064
01:13:55,910 --> 01:13:54,080
but five high quality shows a month

2065
01:13:57,910 --> 01:13:55,920
forget about it

2066
01:13:59,669 --> 01:13:57,920
it's a weird thing but either way i got

2067
01:14:00,470 --> 01:13:59,679
a seven day free trial to get you

2068
01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:00,480
started

2069
01:14:04,310 --> 01:14:02,320
help me help you you will definitely

2070
01:14:05,669 --> 01:14:04,320
enjoy the full shows as they're designed

2071
01:14:07,510 --> 01:14:05,679
to be

2072
01:14:09,430 --> 01:14:07,520
and if you liked our guest today reach

2073
01:14:10,630 --> 01:14:09,440
out to him on twitter if you'd be so

2074
01:14:12,870 --> 01:14:10,640
kind

2075
01:14:15,590 --> 01:14:12,880
and higher side news that is our fifth

2076
01:14:17,270 --> 01:14:15,600
show for the month of august

2077
01:14:19,189 --> 01:14:17,280
i got another interview to record on

2078
01:14:21,270 --> 01:14:19,199
tuesday but i'm really gonna push myself

2079
01:14:23,350 --> 01:14:21,280
to get into these joint session messages

2080
01:14:25,350 --> 01:14:23,360
and knock out a bonus show for you guys

2081
01:14:28,709 --> 01:14:25,360
before the month is over it's long

2082
01:14:30,110 --> 01:14:28,719
overdue i know but it is coming as for

2083
01:14:31,830 --> 01:14:30,120
the meetup calendar at

2084
01:14:33,510 --> 01:14:31,840
highersidemeetups.com where you can meet

2085
01:14:35,750 --> 01:14:33,520
your new friends and build your local

2086
01:14:37,830 --> 01:14:35,760
network of like-minded fun people here's

2087
01:14:39,750 --> 01:14:37,840
what we got on deck

2088
01:14:42,470 --> 01:14:39,760
september 3rd once again we have the

2089
01:14:44,470 --> 01:14:42,480
conspiracy theorizers at the high

2090
01:14:47,350 --> 01:14:44,480
springs brewing company in high springs

2091
01:14:49,990 --> 01:14:47,360
florida but we also had added

2092
01:14:52,310 --> 01:14:50,000
a nature walk to

2093
01:14:54,390 --> 01:14:52,320
forest falls in southern california i

2094
01:14:57,830 --> 01:14:54,400
didn't know what this was so i looked it

2095
01:15:00,630 --> 01:14:57,840
up it looks quite enjoyable

2096
01:15:02,950 --> 01:15:00,640
nature's music and mystery september 3rd

2097
01:15:05,430 --> 01:15:02,960
they're meeting at the l mexicano

2098
01:15:07,510 --> 01:15:05,440
restaurant at 4 30.

2099
01:15:10,870 --> 01:15:07,520
and then we have the seattle thc

2100
01:15:13,750 --> 01:15:10,880
inquisition coming up again on september

2101
01:15:15,270 --> 01:15:13,760
7th the monthly recurring meetup that i

2102
01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:15,280
appreciate

2103
01:15:20,470 --> 01:15:18,480
but i might try to get out to that hike

2104
01:15:22,870 --> 01:15:20,480
i do love waterfalls and i've never been

2105
01:15:24,630 --> 01:15:22,880
there before so keep an eye on

2106
01:15:26,310 --> 01:15:24,640
my twitter i guess if you're in the

2107
01:15:27,910 --> 01:15:26,320
southern california area and i'll let

2108
01:15:28,950 --> 01:15:27,920
you know if i'm gonna make it out to

2109
01:15:31,430 --> 01:15:28,960
that one

2110
01:15:32,950 --> 01:15:31,440
a day or two before it happens

2111
01:15:34,790 --> 01:15:32,960
but that's the kind of thing i do love

2112
01:15:37,189 --> 01:15:34,800
to see on the calendar

2113
01:15:39,669 --> 01:15:37,199
but no matter where you meet up it's

2114
01:15:41,590 --> 01:15:39,679
always a good time to find other thc

2115
01:15:43,430 --> 01:15:41,600
listeners in the area especially in this

2116
01:15:46,070 --> 01:15:43,440
type of climate right

2117
01:15:48,229 --> 01:15:46,080
have a few beers smoke a couple joints

2118
01:15:49,590 --> 01:15:48,239
split a cow do what you do

2119
01:15:51,430 --> 01:15:49,600
but that's it for me thanks for

2120
01:15:54,310 --> 01:15:51,440
listening thanks for being plus members

2121
01:15:55,830 --> 01:15:54,320
and big thanks to our guest as always

2122
01:15:57,910 --> 01:15:55,840
find him on twitter if you want to let

2123
01:15:59,750 --> 01:15:57,920
him know he was heard i will put his

2124
01:16:01,189 --> 01:15:59,760
handle in the show notes and i'll see

2125
01:16:03,910 --> 01:16:01,199
you next time

2126
01:16:05,990 --> 01:16:03,920
i've done my part your move food tech

2127
01:16:08,709 --> 01:16:06,000
tyrants frankenfood monopolists and

2128
01:16:12,550 --> 01:16:08,719
wagers of the war on red meat

2129
01:16:18,149 --> 01:16:15,590
sometimes when i get down i eat a bunch

2130
01:16:22,149 --> 01:16:18,159
of corporate junk

2131
01:16:27,270 --> 01:16:25,189
yeah it's a weak and sickly people make

2132
01:16:29,669 --> 01:16:27,280
an industry

2133
01:16:34,360 --> 01:16:29,679
don't tell me

2134
01:16:34,370 --> 01:16:44,470
[Music]

2135
01:16:44,480 --> 01:16:50,420
and i don't have to face it

2136
01:16:50,430 --> 01:17:00,550
[Music]

2137
01:17:05,510 --> 01:17:03,510
got an addiction to the digital

2138
01:17:08,550 --> 01:17:05,520
technology

2139
01:17:10,149 --> 01:17:08,560
and every now and then i try to quit and

2140
01:17:12,870 --> 01:17:10,159
leave it be

2141
01:17:14,190 --> 01:17:12,880
but it's too hard to turn it off it's

2142
01:17:15,270 --> 01:17:14,200
getting

2143
01:17:17,669 --> 01:17:15,280
[Music]

2144
01:17:17,679 --> 01:17:23,810
it's learning

2145
01:17:23,820 --> 01:17:56,070
[Music]

2146
01:18:22,229 --> 01:17:58,010
don't tell me

2147
01:18:27,220 --> 01:18:22,239
[Music]

2148
01:18:32,470 --> 01:18:27,230
and every one of them has got a couple

2149
01:18:35,690 --> 01:18:32,480
[Music]

2150
01:18:52,950 --> 01:18:35,700
but i don't have to tell you that

2151
01:18:57,669 --> 01:18:55,750
and that is another show complete

2152
01:18:59,990 --> 01:18:57,679
remember as much as you enjoyed this

2153
01:19:01,750 --> 01:19:00,000
which is just the free first hour i hope

2154
01:19:03,669 --> 01:19:01,760
you'll become a plus member to hear the

2155
01:19:05,669 --> 01:19:03,679
full to our interviews

2156
01:19:08,390 --> 01:19:05,679
you also can engage with other plus

2157
01:19:09,830 --> 01:19:08,400
members in the comments and the forums

2158
01:19:11,910 --> 01:19:09,840
and you'll find your answer to one of

2159
01:19:13,669 --> 01:19:11,920
the most common questions i get which is

2160
01:19:15,590 --> 01:19:13,679
where can i find those cover songs that

2161
01:19:18,310 --> 01:19:15,600
you use at the end of the show well they

2162
01:19:20,310 --> 01:19:18,320
are free downloads for plus members too

2163
01:19:22,229 --> 01:19:20,320
and without plus members i can't hire

2164
01:19:24,870 --> 01:19:22,239
the occasional musician to bring these

2165
01:19:26,790 --> 01:19:24,880
odd cover song ideas to fruition

2166
01:19:28,630 --> 01:19:26,800
plus members are how i'm able to do what

2167
01:19:30,470 --> 01:19:28,640
i do without ads and without the big

2168
01:19:32,709 --> 01:19:30,480
machine being on my back

2169
01:19:34,550 --> 01:19:32,719
we can fit so much more into a two-hour

2170
01:19:36,550 --> 01:19:34,560
interview and i do my best to make it

2171
01:19:38,790 --> 01:19:36,560
worth your time and money

2172
01:19:41,110 --> 01:19:38,800
the conversation only gets deeper

2173
01:19:43,270 --> 01:19:41,120
weirder and more controversial in that

2174
01:19:44,470 --> 01:19:43,280
private hour how could it not the way

2175
01:19:46,750 --> 01:19:44,480
things are going

2176
01:19:48,790 --> 01:19:46,760
but the best way to sign up is at

2177
01:19:51,669 --> 01:19:48,800
thehiresidechats.com where new first

2178
01:19:54,229 --> 01:19:51,679
time subscribers always get a free 7-day

2179
01:19:56,310 --> 01:19:54,239
trial because i'm just that confident

2180
01:19:58,470 --> 01:19:56,320
there's no paypal on the website but if

2181
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:58,480
you need to use paypal then sign up

2182
01:20:01,350 --> 01:20:00,239
through patreon and you get all the same

2183
01:20:03,430 --> 01:20:01,360
episodes

2184
01:20:05,189 --> 01:20:03,440
our website is a credit or debit system

2185
01:20:08,070 --> 01:20:05,199
but you can also scope out the other

2186
01:20:10,709 --> 01:20:08,080
options like a few various cryptos cash

2187
01:20:12,470 --> 01:20:10,719
or check mail to the po box and i'll

2188
01:20:14,310 --> 01:20:12,480
even barter with most people if you have

2189
01:20:17,030 --> 01:20:14,320
your own business and produce something

2190
01:20:19,030 --> 01:20:17,040
nice that my wife or kid or taste buds

2191
01:20:21,030 --> 01:20:19,040
might like but the architects of

2192
01:20:22,709 --> 01:20:21,040
consensus reality have made it clear

2193
01:20:25,110 --> 01:20:22,719
that these themes and topics aren't

2194
01:20:26,870 --> 01:20:25,120
really welcome on the main stage and so

2195
01:20:29,030 --> 01:20:26,880
this is how we secure a little

2196
01:20:31,189 --> 01:20:29,040
counterculture corner for ourselves and

2197
01:20:33,110 --> 01:20:31,199
i hope you'll join plus because that is

2198
01:20:35,590 --> 01:20:33,120
the only way it works

2199
01:20:38,070 --> 01:20:35,600
besides you can cancel anytime right on

2200
01:20:40,149 --> 01:20:38,080
your profile page the most common

2201
01:20:42,550 --> 01:20:40,159
concern i hear is people just being

2202
01:20:45,030 --> 01:20:42,560
unsure if thc plus will work with their

2203
01:20:47,510 --> 01:20:45,040
podcast app and the answer is probably

2204
01:20:49,350 --> 01:20:47,520
yes but if not we have several

2205
01:20:51,510 --> 01:20:49,360
high-level app recommendations for

2206
01:20:54,070 --> 01:20:51,520
whatever phone you use and the website

2207
01:20:55,590 --> 01:20:54,080
is made for mobile too we're trained to

2208
01:20:57,270 --> 01:20:55,600
tip a waitress for bringing us a

2209
01:20:59,990 --> 01:20:57,280
sandwich but that tip doesn't give you

2210
01:21:01,910 --> 01:21:00,000
access to a second sandwich really i'm

2211
01:21:03,910 --> 01:21:01,920
not asking for any more than that and i

2212
01:21:06,229 --> 01:21:03,920
think i offer a better service come get

2213
01:21:08,070 --> 01:21:06,239
your second serving of tasty conspiracy

2214
01:21:10,709 --> 01:21:08,080
goodness in exchange for that small

2215
01:21:12,709 --> 01:21:10,719
token of your appreciation beyond that

2216
01:21:14,790 --> 01:21:12,719
let it also be known that we have grown

2217
01:21:15,830 --> 01:21:14,800
and survived as long as we have by word

2218
01:21:17,830 --> 01:21:15,840
of mouth

2219
01:21:19,990 --> 01:21:17,840
i don't care so much about social media

2220
01:21:21,910 --> 01:21:20,000
likes or follows but tell the right

2221
01:21:23,669 --> 01:21:21,920
people about thc

2222
01:21:25,669 --> 01:21:23,679
and not just listeners but the high

2223
01:21:28,310 --> 01:21:25,679
level figures who are better suited to

2224
01:21:29,830 --> 01:21:28,320
sit down with me than most other hosts

2225
01:21:31,830 --> 01:21:29,840
and if you can help me with any of these

2226
01:21:33,910 --> 01:21:31,840
things i can work to bring you better

2227
01:21:34,790 --> 01:21:33,920
shows which is just a win-win for both

2228
01:21:36,629 --> 01:21:34,800
of us

2229
01:21:39,189 --> 01:21:36,639
informative entertaining and

2230
01:21:40,870 --> 01:21:39,199
action-packed it also never hurts to

2231
01:21:42,790 --> 01:21:40,880
thank a guest you liked if you have the

2232
01:21:44,229 --> 01:21:42,800
time either we want them to know people

2233
01:21:46,470 --> 01:21:44,239
are listening so they're willing to come

2234
01:21:48,709 --> 01:21:46,480
back down the road too thank you for